Brexit Schmexit

[eFestivals]

2 minutes ago, zahidf said:

 

all that's doing is extricating himself from a row about side issues.

There might be a row about that issue somewhere down the line, but I wouldn't have thought anyone involved wants to set themselves up as the centre of that row.

Fact is, until there's a meaningful campaign that wants to take-up the possibility of revoking a50 it's all meaningless.

[eFestivals]

19 minutes ago, zahidf said:

 

and actually, it's merely a technical correction to something he'd said previously - where he'd stated that the supreme court had ruled it was irrevocable.

Which isn't correct: the supreme court merely accepted that argument being put forwards, not because it agreed with it, but because it considered it legally irrelevant for what was being heard at the time (the Gina Miller thing on whether the HoC got a vote on triggering a50).

The 'Lord' might have been trying to bullshit for which he got caught, but more likely is that he'd fallen for the bullshit May had tried with a similar line.

But whatever, that 'correction' means zilch to the tories intent to brexit.

[eFestivals]

an investigation has been launched into Vote Leave's spending.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/nov/20/electoral-commission-launches-inquiry-into-leave-campaign-funding

I've no idea if they've broken spending rule or by how much it's suggested they have, but i wonder what the possible consequences would be if they were found to have broken them...?

Re-run the vote? 

Can't really see that, unfortunately.

[zahidf]

15 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

an investigation has been launched into Vote Leave's spending.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/nov/20/electoral-commission-launches-inquiry-into-leave-campaign-funding

I've no idea if they've broken spending rule or by how much it's suggested they have, but i wonder what the possible consequences would be if they were found to have broken them...?

Re-run the vote? 

Can't really see that, unfortunately.

Prison hopefully.

 

A second referendum needs political will. And that will need some pain so the electorate can see what LEAVE really means

[LJS]

5 minutes ago, zahidf said:

Prison hopefully.

 

A second referendum needs political will. And that will need some pain so the electorate can see what LEAVE really means

I think it also needs some leadership, which is conspicuous by its absence. And I don't mean Vince Cable.

Edited November 20, 2017 by LJS

[eFestivals]

2 minutes ago, zahidf said:

A second referendum needs political will. And that will need some pain so the electorate can see what LEAVE really means

in which case we're leaving, cos there won't be any meaningful pain until we leave.

A second referendum needs a credible leader to champion the idea. The only person seemingly in a position to be that is Corbyn, but his credibility leans towards brexit.

So we're fucked.

[eFestivals]

1 minute ago, LJS said:

I think it also needs some leadership, which conspicuous by its absence. And I don't mean Vince Cable.

I posted something similar at about the same moment.

Outside of Corbyn, the next-best possible leader against brexit that i can see is Nick Clegg - but that would very likely be another loss, cos too many people let their imaginations out-run reality.

Who else? I can't think of anyone.

[LJS]

1 minute ago, eFestivals said:

I posted something similar at about the same moment.

Outside of Corbyn, the next-best possible leader against brexit that i can see is Nick Clegg - but that would very likely be another loss, cos too many people let their imaginations out-run reality.

Who else? I can't think of anyone.

Gary lineker

 

[lost]

3 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

I posted something similar at about the same moment.

Outside of Corbyn, the next-best possible leader against brexit that i can see is Nick Clegg - but that would very likely be another loss, cos too many people let their imaginations out-run reality.

Who else? I can't think of anyone.

Clegg, Osborne, David Milliband and Chuka Umunna. Three out of four have left politics probably never to return and Momentum hate the last one. I'd say your currently spot on with the "we're fucked" comment. There is no appetite for centrists currently.

Edited November 20, 2017 by lost

[eFestivals]

 

5 minutes ago, lost said:

I'd say your currently spot on with the "we're fucked" comment. There is no appetite for centrists currently.

maybe nature will do the situation a favour, and have Corbyn keel over?

Tho with Lansman about to get a place on the NEC the brexiters have taken over, and even Corbyn's death probably couldn't create the opportunity for a change.

8 minutes ago, lost said:

There is no appetite for centrists currently.

there's a huge appetite. The problem is that so many Corbyniastas wrongly believe him to be much less left than he is, and that he can work miracles.

[russycarps]

I know it's been coming for ages, but I found this a very depressing read. It's quite extraordinary that Davis thought we'd be able to keep them in London.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/nov/20/london-loses-european-medicines-agency-amsterdam-brexit-relocation

[zahidf]

1 hour ago, russycarps said:

I know it's been coming for ages, but I found this a very depressing read. It's quite extraordinary that Davis thought we'd be able to keep them in London.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/nov/20/london-loses-european-medicines-agency-amsterdam-brexit-relocation

Davis is an idiot or a liar

[eFestivals]

6 hours ago, zahidf said:

Davis is an idiot or a liar

idiot is it.

He's the geezer who voted brexit while thinking the UK could do trade deals with individual EU states.

When the knowledge of the EU is so very bad amongst the politicians who run the country, it's hardly surprising that the general population was suckered with this sort of bollocks.

[lost]

Article in the telegraph saying german business leaders are now pushing for the UK to be offered the deal Cameron originally asked for so we can stay in the EU:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/11/20/stop-brexit-happening-german-business-leaders-tell-eu/

There is currently no political backing for it though its possible Merkel won't be there after the next round of elections.

Quite a change from 12 months ago when Merkel was being called the new leader of the free world after Trumps election. She now can't form a government due to a disagreement over erm refugee numbers.

[lost]

Oh and I hope this puts to bed any suggestion regarding Corbyn's Brexit being any different from David Davis & Gove.

 

[russycarps]

40 minutes ago, lost said:

Oh and I hope this puts to bed any suggestion regarding Corbyn's Brexit being any different from David Davis & Gove.

 

History will judge corbyn as being just as culpable for the brexit disaster as any tory. He's a c**t.

 

[eFestivals]

4 minutes ago, russycarps said:

History will judge corbyn as being just as culpable for the brexit disaster as any tory. He's a c**t.

but less of one than those who project their own ideas onto Corbyn, to pretend Corbyn is not who he is.

Corbyn's attitudes towards the EU are perfectly clear, and do not match the inventions.

[zahidf]

51 minutes ago, lost said:

Oh and I hope this puts to bed any suggestion regarding Corbyn's Brexit being any different from David Davis & Gove.

 

Their side (for what its worth)

[zahidf]

 

[eFestivals]

15 minutes ago, zahidf said:

 

some very bad joining up of the dots there.

If we have a FTA with the EU ('most favoured nation'), the vote against this amendment was pointless because we can still apply tariffs to others.

If we don't have a FTA with the EU, the vote against this amendment was pointless because we'll apply tariffs to all.

You only have to read what Gardiner says himself for that to be clear.

Try a bit of thinking?

[zahidf]

6 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

some very bad joining up of the dots there.

If we have a FTA with the EU ('most favoured nation'), the vote against this amendment was pointless because we can still apply tariffs to others.

If we don't have a FTA with the EU, the vote against this amendment was pointless because we'll apply tariffs to all.

You only have to read what Gardiner says himself for that to be clear.

Try a bit of thinking?

im not saying i agree. Im just presenting the reasoning they have given

[eFestivals]

2 minutes ago, zahidf said:

im not saying i agree. Im just presenting the reasoning they have given

the reasoning is a crock of shit - as i've just demonstrated.

So either say it's a crock of shit, or say how Gardiner's argument stands up.

Silence will be your admission that Gardiner is talking shit and you're mindlessly spreading ignorant shit.

[zahidf]

3 hours ago, eFestivals said:

the reasoning is a crock of shit - as i've just demonstrated.

So either say it's a crock of shit, or say how Gardiner's argument stands up.

Silence will be your admission that Gardiner is talking shit and you're mindlessly spreading ignorant shit.

I dont know if he is right or not. Im presenting Labours official reasoning behind the vote. If u think its shit, then ok.

[eFestivals]

4 minutes ago, zahidf said:

I dont know if he is right or not. Im presenting Labours official reasoning behind the vote. If u think its shit, then ok.

mindlessly swallowing the word of someone else is how come the brexiters won.

Good job you're better than them and have your own mind, eh?

[russycarps]

So we cant have a European Capital of Culture anymore. No shock that we're booted out of course. The comments underneath are quite pathetic too. It seems Lad's real name is George.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-tayside-central-42095477