Brexit Schmexit

[eFestivals]

5 minutes ago, feral chile said:

customs.

Nope.

They all exist already, and only upscaling would be required.

There's a whole world already outside of the EU... remember?

[feral chile]

7 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

Nope.

They all exist already, and only upscaling would be required.

There's a whole world already outside of the EU... remember?

google Customs Declaration Service 

https://www.parliament.uk/business/committees/committees-a-z/commons-select/treasury-committee/news-parliament-2015/collapse-in-confidence-cds-16-17/

Edited November 30, 2017 by feral chile

[eFestivals]

4 minutes ago, feral chile said:

google Customs Declaration Service 

which only says that upscaling will be necessary.

 

[feral chile]

18 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

which only says that upscaling will be necessary.

 

I edited this link while you replied:

https://www.parliament.uk/business/committees/committees-a-z/commons-selepct/treasury-committee/news-parliament-2015/collapse-in-confidence-cds-16-17/

A later update:

https://www.nao.org.uk/press-release/the-customs-declaration-service/

Edited November 30, 2017 by feral chile

[eFestivals]

16 minutes ago, feral chile said:

I edited this link while you replied:

https://www.parliament.uk/business/committees/committees-a-z/commons-select/treasury-committee/news-parliament-2015/collapse-in-confidence-cds-16-17/

so it doesn't get rolled out on time, and perhaps never.

Meanwhile the current systems are adequate for the job, with upscaling to cover the extra customs load.

Really what you're pointing at here is just another poorly thought out run of the mill upgrade to govt systems. It's not anything tied to brexit in its conception.

[feral chile]

1 minute ago, eFestivals said:

so it doesn't get rolled out on time, and perhaps never.

Meanwhile the current systems are adequate for the job, with upscaling to cover the extra customs load.

Really what you're pointing at here is just another poorly thought out run of the mill upgrade to govt systems. It's not anything tied to brexit in its conception.

What don't you get about this? 

http://www.fta.co.uk/media_and_campaigns/press_releases/2016/20170713-customs-declaration-service-not-fit-for-brexit-purposes-says-fta.html

[feral chile]

3 minutes ago, feral chile said:

What don't you get about this? 

http://www.fta.co.uk/media_and_campaigns/press_releases/2016/20170713-customs-declaration-service-not-fit-for-brexit-purposes-says-fta.html

And here:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-national-audit-office-amyas-morse-customs-check-computer-it-system-a7837811.html

[feral chile]

33 minutes ago, feral chile said:

And here:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-national-audit-office-amyas-morse-customs-check-computer-it-system-a7837811.html

Costings here estimated at over £800 million. That's just the system. Plus staff and training and everything else.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/nov/14/brexit-failure-to-update-customs-system-could-be-catastrophic

[eFestivals]

3 minutes ago, feral chile said:

Costings here estimated at over £800 million. That's just the system. Plus staff and training and everything else.

For that system, a big spend is required even without an upscale.

But that aside, what of it? Needing to spend money to upscale some systems for brexit is a given. No one has kept quiet about it. The headbangers are demanding that money is spent everywhere now, without knowing if the spend will be required.

Which is one way of doing it, but not necessarily the best way. Especially as people working on that can't be working in hospitals or building houses or whatever you'd like done for you.

[feral chile]

1 minute ago, eFestivals said:

For that system, a big spend is required even without an upscale.

But that aside, what of it? Needing to spend money to upscale some systems for brexit is a given. No one has kept quiet about it. The headbangers are demanding that money is spent everywhere now, without knowing if the spend will be required.

Which is one way of doing it, but not necessarily the best way. Especially as people working on that can't be working in hospitals or building houses or whatever you'd like done for you.

This is the thing. They're not headbangers. We have to get the infrastructure ready and the uncertainty means we have to plan for all contingencies and we have to do it now. All this faffing about the withdrawal settlement adds to the costs.

[eFestivals]

14 minutes ago, feral chile said:

We have to get the infrastructure ready

only if we need it. if we don't need it, we don't need to get it ready.

15 minutes ago, feral chile said:

the uncertainty means we have to plan for all contingencies and we have to do it now

the fact that we're already too late means it doesn't make a lot of difference. 

I don't deny that keeping your fingers crossed it turns out OK is a risky strategy, but so is pissing money up the wall if it's not going to be necessary.

Personally, I'm not too bothered to see the govt holding back - for once - on giving their mates some fat contracts for unnecessary work.

18 minutes ago, feral chile said:

All this faffing about the withdrawal settlement adds to the costs.

Who knows? Really?

The govt might have agreed the price months ago at what they've supposedly just agreed now, but who knows how that would have got taken within the negotiations?

From where we're sat it doesn't look a clever strategy, but we don't know what's really going on, and where each side thinks the real pressures are.

And anyway, your mate Jez says that extra costs are all free, so i don't know why you're worried.

[feral chile]

4 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

only if we need it. if we don't need it, we don't need to get it ready.

the fact that we're already too late means it doesn't make a lot of difference. 

I don't deny that keeping your fingers crossed it turns out OK is a risky strategy, but so is pissing money up the wall if it's not going to be necessary.

Personally, I'm not too bothered to see the govt holding back - for once - on giving their mates some fat contracts for unnecessary work.

Who knows? Really?

The govt might have agreed the price months ago at what they've supposedly just agreed now, but who knows how that would have got taken within the negotiations?

From where we're sat it doesn't look a clever strategy, but we don't know what's really going on, and where each side thinks the real pressures are.

And anyway, your mate Jez says that extra costs are all free, so i don't know why you're worried.

Oh so you'd like to wait till we're out before planning the infrastructure.

Yay for Europe. We can't collect tax. Except we can't trade with them either as neither could they. That's ok what's £34 billion a year good for anyway.

[eFestivals]

5 minutes ago, feral chile said:

Oh so you'd like to wait till we're out before planning the infrastructure.

No, I'd like to have a plan for the infrastructure before we piss money on infrastructure.

 

5 minutes ago, feral chile said:

Yay for Europe. We can't collect tax. Except we can't trade with them either as neither could they. That's ok what's £34 billion a year good for anyway.

We'll be losing the customs duties we don't collect now. It'll hurt.

(not, obviously).

[feral chile]

4 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

No, I'd like to have a plan for the infrastructure before we piss money on infrastructure.

 

We'll be losing the customs duties we don't collect now. It'll hurt.

(not, obviously).

It takes years to develop the IT. Our systems have to communicate with theirs and be compatible with the current system. By external companies with little knowledge of the tax requirements involved.

[eFestivals]

5 minutes ago, feral chile said:

It takes years to develop the IT. Our systems have to communicate with theirs and be compatible with the current system. By external companies with little knowledge of the tax requirements involved.

no shit sherlock, but nowt to do with brexit.

 

 

[feral chile]

13 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

no shit sherlock, but nowt to do with brexit.

 

 

The system was due to change before Brexit, yes, but now has to cope with loads more than was expected.

[feral chile]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2011/feb/01/revenue-tax-nps-savaged-mps-pac-report

Past issues with IT systems and length of time involved in planning them.

[eFestivals]

9 minutes ago, feral chile said:

The system was due to change before Brexit, yes, but now has to cope with loads more than was expected.

the system will be easily scaleable for more transactions. which is the only extra necessary for brexit (so far, anyway). In transactional terms, it's a small-fry application.

[feral chile]

4 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

the system will be easily scaleable for more transactions. which is the only extra necessary for brexit (so far, anyway). In transactional terms, it's a small-fry application.

Don't underestimate the potential for disaster here.

Though your faith is touching.

Edited November 30, 2017 by feral chile

[eFestivals]

3 minutes ago, feral chile said:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2011/feb/01/revenue-tax-nps-savaged-mps-pac-report

Past issues with IT systems and length of time involved in planning them.

but nothing to do with brexit. :rolleyes:

And there is no systems design planning required for trade with the EU after brexit as things stand.

Either we continue as we are with no (computer) paperwork, or things revert to a specified customs regime, which any customs system will already be handling (for the current non-EU customs).

You're now fantasising problems that don't exist. The UK have been running a tax collecting customs service since the year dot, and (if no-deal brexit) it merely needs expanding in order to cover the change with the EU.

There's other places where systems don't exist. This isn't one of them.

[eFestivals]

1 minute ago, feral chile said:

Don't underestimate the potential for disaster here.

Though your faith is touching.

My rejection of fantasies is sane.

The guy I started this website with used to have the maintenance contract for the Customs service software; one geezer it was, doing that. I have my own background in computers. Perhaps I know more about this than you're inventing out of nothing?

The potential for cock-up is there BUT ITS NOTHING TO DO WITH BREXIT.

[feral chile]

9 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

My rejection of fantasies is sane.

The guy I started this website with used to have the maintenance contract for the Customs service software; one geezer it was, doing that. I have my own background in computers. Perhaps I know more about this than you're inventing out of nothing?

The potential for cock-up is there BUT ITS NOTHING TO DO WITH BREXIT.

That's an absolute load of crap.

[feral chile]

15 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

but nothing to do with brexit.

And there is no systems design planning required for trade with the EU after brexit as things stand.

Either we continue as we are with no (computer) paperwork, or things revert to a specified customs regime, which any customs system will already be handling (for the current non-EU customs).

You're now fantasising problems that don't exist. The UK have been running a tax collecting customs service since the year dot, and (if no-deal brexit) it merely needs expanding in order to cover the change with the EU.

There's other places where systems don't exist. This isn't one of them.

That's not my information though I can't say too much about it.

[feral chile]

15 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

My rejection of fantasies is sane.

The guy I started this website with used to have the maintenance contract for the Customs service software; one geezer it was, doing that. I have my own background in computers. Perhaps I know more about this than you're inventing out of nothing?

The potential for cock-up is there BUT ITS NOTHING TO DO WITH BREXIT.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/04/04/hmrc_breaks_up_aspire_it_contract_500bn_tax/

[eFestivals]

4 minutes ago, feral chile said:

That's an absolute load of crap.

says the know-nothing woman.

 

3 minutes ago, feral chile said:

That's not my information though I can't say too much about it.

the UK don't have a customs service currently...?