news & politics:discussion

[Ozanne]

6 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

and then lose the next election.

But win the argument 😉

[steviewevie]

So dividing lines on next election being set...net zero, asylum seekers, and EU. Now labour need to make the argument for this stuff because it's going to get full on.

[Neil]

don't get to excited about the EU thing. this article outlines some of the very big issues.and handing over sovereignty to the EU courts is going to be a huge row (one that the UK ducked when we originally joined the EU).

[steviewevie]

3 minutes ago, Neil said:

don't get to excited about the EU thing. this article outlines some of the very big issues.and handing over sovereignty to the EU courts is going to be a huge row (one that the UK ducked when we originally joined the EU).

Looks like a sensible idea to me...

[Neil]

2 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

Looks like a sensible idea to me...

sensible idea or not, it has loads of aspects that make things difficult for the UK, could be a bit embarrassing a bit like de Gaulle saying 'non' 😛 

[steviewevie]

7 hours ago, Neil said:

sensible idea or not, it has loads of aspects that make things difficult for the UK, could be a bit embarrassing a bit like de Gaulle saying 'non' 😛 

yes, they may well say non, but that will be in 2025 after the election.

Anyway, I don't think there will be any massive change, just small things incrementally over time.

[steviewevie]

kind of sad how it turned out for Diane Abbott. She was stupid sending that letter, but she did apologise and deserves to be treated as others have been...but I guess gives Starmer an excuse to get rid of another lefty who could be a problem going forward. Think she deserves better.

Edited September 20, 2023 by steviewevie

[steviewevie]

Inflation down. Well done Rishi.

[Neil]

1 hour ago, steviewevie said:

kind of sad how it turned out for Diane Abbott. She was stupid sending that letter, but she did apologise and deserves to be treated as others have been...but I guess gives Starmer an excuse to get rid of another lefty who could be a problem going forward. Think she deserves better.

like corbyn she was too stupid to recognise her own error.

[steviewevie]

1 minute ago, Neil said:

like corbyn she was too stupid to recognise her own error.

unlike Corbyn she apologised.

[lost]

Ken Livingstone has Alzheimer's too. Not a great week for that generation of lefties.

[steviewevie]

Oil prices up...they'll have to increase rates to get that down.

[Neil]

30 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

unlike Corbyn she apologised.

just like corbyn she's reckoned to be the expert on what she did(spent decades trading on it) , so should never of happened.

[Nobody Interesting]

13 hours ago, steviewevie said:

they said no new wealth tax...doesn't mean they can't change what we already have...😎

They have said no to any tax rises........ apart from the non dom stuff. They really have given themselves no room for manovre.

[Nobody Interesting]

12 hours ago, Ozanne said:

I have looked at both their websites and whilst the Greens do have very good plans, Labour has solid policy offerings, papers that back up their policies and also has them costed which the Greens don’t generally tend to have because I guess they don’t get asked that question.

Labour have seen how important the climate agenda is, how engaged the public are for it and have now put together the detailed policy offering that is needed. When Labour deliver on those promises then the UK will be a clean energy superpower and we can put pressure on other countries to do the same. 

I am not sure what you have read as the Green website has costings on it with links galore to external publications to back up their plans - and let's not forget..... their plan is net zero by 2035, not 2050 like Labour so I think that alone shows how far ahead they are.

I admire your faith in Labour and I really hope it comes true cos if it does not we are f**ked........... but those words have been used by the Tories as well in recent years about their plans - now look where we are!

[Nobody Interesting]

13 hours ago, Crazyfool01 said:

im intrigued how you think Labour have more detailed green policy than a party that set that out as their raison de etre ? im mean sure argue that the green policies are weaker elsewhere ? 

In simple terms, the Greens plans are better than everything else anyone else have ever considered and go further than all of them put together - I really have no idea how the other poster thinks that!!

[steviewevie]

4 minutes ago, Nobody Interesting said:

They have said no to any tax rises........ apart from the non dom stuff. They really have given themselves no room for manovre.

they will increase taxes somewhere. I bet you a squillion quid. 

[Nobody Interesting]

11 hours ago, mattiloy said:

Y u lyin 4?

Here is an exhaustive very detailed archive of current Green party policy readily available on their website.

https://policy.greenparty.org.uk/our-policies/long-term-goals/energy/

Here is just the part about energy:

https://policy.greenparty.org.uk/our-policies/long-term-goals/energy/

 

Labour has 6 bullet points:

https://labour.org.uk/issue/labours-plan-to-cut-bills/

 

 

Thanks for doing this - last night I was in a bit of a personal meltdown so need to get off here rather than post all this.

The Green site also links all it's policies with others to show the full jigsaw - their wildlife and habitat policies are vast. Labours are 1 sentence. Their jigsaw does not even have the edges completed.

[Nobody Interesting]

11 hours ago, Ozanne said:

It’s time for a serious party to govern. 

That tweet is done every week - it is rather meaningless.

[steviewevie]

7 minutes ago, Nobody Interesting said:

In simple terms, the Greens plans are better than everything else anyone else have ever considered and go further than all of them put together - I really have no idea how the other poster thinks that!!

yes but Greens aren't going to be in government etc forever.

[Nobody Interesting]

2 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

yes but Greens aren't going to be in government etc forever.

and that closed mind mentality will give us a Tory government again in a minimum of 10 years and in another 40 years nothing will have changed for most people as the country flips from blue to red and back again.

A wasted vote is a vote for policies you do not believe in.
A wasted vote is a vote that returns a party and you say 'nothing ever changes'

If you are sick of nothing ever changing and you do not change your vote then ask yourself why nothing ever changes.

Any country with a 2 party system  has the same problems the UK does - only countries with good coverage by lots of parties are seeing fresh imaginitive policies that will make real change happen.

Meanwhile the UK is stuck in the 1970's going nowhere fast.

[steviewevie]

Just now, Nobody Interesting said:

and that closed mind mentality will give us a Tory government again in a minimum of 10 years and in another 40 years nothing will have changed for most people as the country flips from blue to red and back again.

A wasted vote is a vote for policies you do not believe in.
A wasted vote is a vote that returns a party and you say 'nothing ever changes'

If you are sick of nothing ever changing and you do not change your vote then ask yourself why nothing ever changes.

Any country with a 2 party system  has the same problems the UK does - only countries with good coverage by lots of parties are seeing fresh imaginitive policies that will make real change happen.

Meanwhile the UK is stuck in the 1970's going nowhere fast

Yes but back in the real world they're not going to form the next government.

[Nobody Interesting]

10 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

Yes but back in the real world they're not going to form the next government.

and again you back up my point that nothing will ever change - attitudes need to change first........ and then things can start.

If the attitude is as you are showing in post after post then we will carry on like the last 70 years for the next 70.

The UK is fast becoming like the USA where only 2 parties matter and if one is led by a nutter and they see that nutter as the only way to win an election the party falls in line behind them.

Careful what you wish for.

[Nobody Interesting]

A Tory with a brain - Zac Goldsmith

[steviewevie]

26 minutes ago, Nobody Interesting said:

and again you back up my point that nothing will ever change - attitudes need to change first........ and then things can start.

If the attitude is as you are showing in post after post then we will carry on like the last 70 years for the next 70.

The UK is fast becoming like the USA where only 2 parties matter and if one is led by a nutter and they see that nutter as the only way to win an election the party falls in line behind them.

Careful what you wish for.

ok, I will change my attitude and think Greens can get in.

But they won't. They don't have the numbers. With our electoral system it is very hard for 3rd parties, let alone 4th parties to get anywhere near government. Sometimes they do like Lib Dems in 2010 which turned out to be a disaster and they were binned by many voters for the next decade,

Tory and Labour are so successful because they are coalitions, Tories have shifted to the right recently, and so have Labour and now have a greater share of the electorate. Greens are interesting as they can attract both centrist tory who see the environment as a priority but could never vote Labour, or Lib Dem, and left wing Labour voters who don't feel Labour represents them. So they could get 5 to 10%, maybe a couple of MPs. Maybe if I change my attitude they could win 3. But I'm afraid not enough people care enough.

Some people, like you, see climate change as the number one existential crisis facing the world. Some people think we should just adapt. Some people think it's overblown. Some people think it's made up. Some people think we should prioritise our public services. Some people think we should cut taxes. Some people think we should kick out all immigrants. Some people think we should have open borders. Some people think we should bring back hanging. etc