Football 18/19

[eFestivals]

1 minute ago, zahidf said:

But what is the hidden reason for the different coverage other than racism???

Do those individuals (or their families) have previous coverage with the press? If so, what did it say? For all I know - and what do you know? - one might have been buying the journo's mum xmas pressies while the other might have been threatening to stab the journo's mum.

They're people, they're not just their skin colour. It's the racists who make it all about their skin colour.

[eFestivals]

3 minutes ago, zahidf said:

A lot of people, such as the black footballers talking about it, do see it and call it racism. As lineker says here in response to piers morgan

so do what Morgan asks and show us the articles which wouldn't have been written about Rooney.  

I don't doubt there's some that wouldn't have been written about Rooney in a similar way, but there's also plenty that would have been - which means that not all of the criticism are what you claim for them.

[zahidf]

4 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

Do those individuals (or their families) have previous coverage with the press? If so, what did it say? For all I know - and what do you know? - one might have been buying the journo's mum xmas pressies while the other might have been threatening to stab the journo's mum.

They're people, they're not just their skin colour. It's the racists who make it all about their skin colour.

So sterling saying it's because of racism makes him the real racist? Really?

Those are interesting hypothetical questions but I strongly doubt they are reasons for the different coverage. You don't really have an alternative reason for the difference in coverage he brings up...

[eFestivals]

1 minute ago, zahidf said:

So sterling saying it's because of racism makes him the real racist? Really?

 oh dear.

 

Quote

Those are interesting hypothetical questions but I strongly doubt they are reasons for the different coverage. You don't really have an alternative reason for the difference in coverage he brings up...

But you're calling "different coverage" for the same coverage.  

Rooney got criticised for his spending choices, just as Sterling has been. 

Edited December 11, 2018 by eFestivals

[zahidf]

8 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

 oh dear.

 

But you're calling "different coverage" for the same coverage.  

Rooney got criticised for his spending choices, just as Sterling has been. 

Um no, they are covering the players sterling mentions differently for the same thing.

That's a very specific example sterling brings up as a racist difference in coverage. You're saying it can't be that, and making up odd other reasons for it for some reason.

[eFestivals]

9 minutes ago, zahidf said:

they are covering the players sterling mentions differently for the same thing.

are they? Want to tell me the full press and personal histories of those two players, then?

 

9 minutes ago, zahidf said:

That's a very specific example sterling brings up as a racist difference in coverage. You're saying it can't be that, and making up odd other reasons for it for some reason.

Sterling highlighted a difference in coverage.

That difference alone does not prove the difference as racism. Those who think it does are applying their own racism, by reducing individuals to only their skin colour.

You have to look deeper to know if Sterling has called it correctly for those particular instances.

I can't be bothered to look deeper. I know that Sterling has nailed it as a general theme, but that still doesn't mean all criticisms are driven by only racism.

Edited December 11, 2018 by eFestivals

[kaosmark2]

If it calls monkey chants like a racist, and says black people don't deserve nice things like a racist, I'm gonna assume it's a racist until given counter-evidence.

[eFestivals]

2 minutes ago, kaosmark2 said:

If it calls monkey chants like a racist, and says black people don't deserve nice things like a racist, I'm gonna assume it's a racist until given counter-evidence.

there were no monkey chants in articles criticising the spending choices of Rooney or Sterling. Nor did those articles say that white or black people don't deserve nice things.

So i guess you're talking about something else.  

[kaosmark2]

23 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

Nor did those articles say that white or black people don't deserve nice things.

So i guess you're talking about something else.  

The "black footballer buys mansion", "Sterling has £1m fleet of fancy cars", "black footballer has home near where previously successful footballers did" articles were basically "black people don't deserve nice things".

[zahidf]

1 hour ago, eFestivals said:

so do what Morgan asks and show us the articles which wouldn't have been written about Rooney.  

I don't doubt there's some that wouldn't have been written about Rooney in a similar way, but there's also plenty that would have been - which means that not all of the criticism are what you claim for them.

On a different tack, does sterling get the same praise Rooney does? If your comparing them? I'd say Rooney mistakes were always forgotten when he played well, whilst the media do not do the same with sterling. That's not particularly equal.

[eFestivals]

10 minutes ago, kaosmark2 said:

The "black footballer buys mansion", "Sterling has £1m fleet of fancy cars", "black footballer has home near where previously successful footballers did" articles were basically "black people don't deserve nice things".

if it has all those explicit references to "black" in it, you'll be spot on.

Did it?

Or is that your own addition?

[zahidf]

Just now, eFestivals said:

if it has all those explicit references to "black" in it, you'll be spot on.

Did it?

Or is that your own addition?

So unless it's in your face, it isn't racism?

Like using a picture of sterling in a story about unrelated knife crime? Does that meet your test?

[eFestivals]

16 minutes ago, zahidf said:

does sterling get the same praise Rooney does?

does Sterling have the same scoring rate for England?

16 minutes ago, zahidf said:

That's not particularly equal.

I refer you to the just-above.

Fair comment is fair. Are the differences in praise (reasonably) fair against the differences in game-outcome &/or player-contribution?

Edited December 11, 2018 by eFestivals

[eFestivals]

Just now, zahidf said:

So unless it's in your face, it isn't racism?

Oh FFS.  

Comments are not racist-by-default because the player is black.

 

Just now, zahidf said:

Like using a picture of sterling in a story about unrelated knife crime? Does that meet your test?

care to show me where I've said there's nothing to what Sterling has raised? :rolleyes: 

I'm trying to point out that your take where any criticism of Sterling is racist does Sterling's point no favours at all.

[zahidf]

3 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

Oh FFS.  

Comments are not racist-by-default because the player is black.

 

care to show me where I've said there's nothing to what Sterling has raised? :rolleyes: 

I'm trying to point out that your take where any criticism of Sterling is racist does Sterling's point no favours at all.

But I'm not saying that. Even he isn't saying. He's saying the way a lot of the papers talk about black footballers leads to incidents like that on Sunday. If you agree with that broad point, then I don't get the disagreement. 

 

[jyoung]

Reports coming out that the man in question has lost his CFC season ticket and his job. Denies racism. Says he used the word 'manc'... Make of that what you will...

[zahidf]

Just now, jyoung said:

Reports coming out that the man in question has lost his CFC season ticket and his job. Denies racism. Says he used the word 'manc'... Make of that what you will...

Who to believe, him or the guy he was screaming abuse at 

Tough one.

[eFestivals]

1 minute ago, zahidf said:

He's saying the way a lot of the papers talk about black footballers leads to incidents like that on Sunday.

And he's right about that, tho again Rooney got similar so not only racial abuse. 

There's lots of different issues in the mix, and we won't get the right change without recognising the right reasons.

[jyoung]

1 minute ago, zahidf said:

Who to believe, him or the guy he was screaming abuse at 

Tough one.

Yep.

[eFestivals]

Just now, jyoung said:

Yep.

I'll just point out that some of us can do abuse without needing to be racist.  

(I've no idea either way if geezer was racist or not, am happy for a lip-reader to decide that one).

[thetime]

5 minutes ago, zahidf said:

Who to believe, him or the guy he was screaming abuse at 

Tough one.

Rather go through legal process before deciding either way. You seem desperate for him to be proven to have used racist language, rather than the truth to come out. 

[zahidf]

2 minutes ago, thetime said:

Rather go through legal process before deciding either way. You seem desperate for him to be proven to have used racist language, rather than the truth to come out. 

Maybe he shouldn't have screamed abuse when he knew he was in front of a camera? Especially racial abuse . Bit rich of him to complain about being all over the media.

He may or may not be racist. But the club clearly feel he was in taking his season ticket away. And sterling says he heard it. 

[thetime]

2 minutes ago, zahidf said:

Maybe he shouldn't have screamed abuse when he knew he was in front of a camera? Especially racial abuse . Bit rich of him to complain about being all over the media.

He may or may not be racist. But the club clearly feel he was in taking his season ticket away. And sterling says he heard it. 

It’s not been proven to be racist, that’s the cops/courts to decide. Clubs take season tickets of fans all the time, it’s not a new thing. 

[kaosmark2]

34 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

if it has all those explicit references to "black" in it, you'll be spot on.

Did it?

Or is that your own addition?

One or two of them did. Not all. But in the context of the ones that did, the others also look worse.

[zahidf]

4 minutes ago, thetime said:

It’s not been proven to be racist, that’s the cops/courts to decide. Clubs take season tickets of fans all the time, it’s not a new thing. 

That's not the benchmark for someone to be racist

But hey, maybe he really did say manc c**t and sterling misheard. Who knows.

Edited December 11, 2018 by zahidf