Rightfield

[mrtourette]

But hasn't that been the overriding principle for the human race, and in fact every other animal, since time began?

[MichaelsBeard]

Might be missing the point entirely here but isn't this meant to be a forum about Glastonbury Festival...?

[russycarps]

I'd imagine to some extent the right are happy to take the hit or downplay tax evasion becuase of the encouragement it gives companies to grow here and create jobs, but probably don't like to get into a public debate so try and deflect attention to 'lefite' issues. Much as the left do when challenged on 'their' issues. Everyone just points the finger at someone else and claims that their problem is worse.

[mrtourette]

but the problem of tax avoidance/evasion IS worse than benefit scroungers.

By a massive margin!

[russycarps]

Well I'd expect you to say that...

[russycarps]

Might be missing the point entirely here but isn't this meant to be a forum about Glastonbury Festival...?

[eFestivals]

Might be missing the point entirely here but isn't this meant to be a forum about Glastonbury Festival...?

yup, it is - where someone is saying there should be a raving right wing tent in the interests of balance -a balance that doesn't exist as the opposite within society as a whole.

So some of us are trying to piut the person who wishes to give away his wealth and opportunities to robbing scumbags onto a better path where facts and not propaganda start to impact onto his thinking.

[eFestivals]

Well I'd expect you to say that...

even the frigging treasury say that .... but then ignore it and say we need to crack down on benefit cheats which are just 1/50th of the problem.

[ThomThomDrum]

Lets not forget tax avoidance is perfectly legal.

The game needs to change for it not to be.

Is there the political will to change it up? I seriously doubt it, no matter how much jip Cameron gives the likes of Jimmy Carr.

[russycarps]

Lets not forget tax avoidance is perfectly legal.

The game needs to change for it not to be.

Is there the political will to change it up? I seriously doubt it, no matter how much jip Cameron gives the likes of Jimmy Carr.

[russycarps]

oh and by way of comparison, in 2010/11 benefit fraud was estimateds at £3.4Bn

[mrtourette]

how can anyone deny it though?

The figures speak for themselves.

[siblin]

even the frigging treasury say that .... but then ignore it and say we need to crack down on benefit cheats which are just 1/50th of the problem.

[eFestivals]

Is there the political will to change it up? I seriously doubt it, no matter how much jip Cameron gives the likes of Jimmy Carr.

there's not - because all the politicians have their own fingers in the till, and the average person is too bothered about someone down the road stealing a penny from them whilst not caring that the rich are carrying away wheelbarrows of their cash.

[russycarps]

'Figures' released to the public very rarely speak for themsleves.

Personally I would imagine that the cost of tax evasion/avoidance is greater then benefit fraud but I certainly don't trust 'figures' that are so readiliy available.

[eFestivals]

and the ONS. Govt expenditure is about £700b, The welfare budget is about £120b. Have a guess how much of that is unemployment.. go on put a figure in your head.

80b?

50?

no its £9b of unemployment benefit - go on, i'll give you an extra billion for housing, so thats £10b. Being really generous and say 10% of that is fraud and/or taken by immigrants (not illegal ones by the way - by definitition they dont get benefits). thats less than £1b.

Ok so tax evasion. Admittedly i've done less research here but a quick google estimates £70b in tax evasion for the uk. thats 70X more!

the treasury's own figures put welfare fraud at £1.5Bn, and tax fraud at £75Bn - which is the 50 times more I said.

(tho it's worth noting that the treasury are including 'error' with payments by W&P staff within the welfare fraud, and put that at 50% of it .... so tax fraud is actually 100 times as much!).

[wilko8]

You lefties just keep avoiding the questions you can't/don't want to answer.

Not sure which is worse. Thick people believing what they read in the daily mail. Or so called intellectuals believing that people believe what they read in the daily mail.

*i don't read the daily mail. I like to think that the whole set up and everything written is ironic and for comedy purposes. I.e the "immigrants cause cancer" headlines are just to take the piss out of the ignorant right, and make the lefties flap.

It feels better that way.

[siblin]

oh and by way of comparison, in 2010/11 benefit fraud was estimateds at £3.4Bn

[ThomThomDrum]

Tax avoidance is legal, Tax evasion is illegal.

In 2011/12

• £70 billion of tax evasion,
• £25 billion tax avoidance

[mrtourette]

there's not - because all the politicians have their own fingers in the till, and the average person is too bothered about someone down the road stealing a penny from them whilst not caring that the rich are carrying away wheelbarrows of their cash.

[Teddington]

if you'd care to tell me how to opt out of capitalism I'm all ears.

A system that forces people to sell out principles to the highest bidder will never be give you a principled society, unless your principles are to fuck over everyone else.

[eFestivals]

'Figures' released to the public very rarely speak for themsleves.

Personally I would imagine that the cost of tax evasion/avoidance is greater then benefit fraud but I certainly don't trust 'figures' that are so readiliy available.

if the treasury are happy to say that they're failing in their tax collection duties by £75Bn, then the likelihood is that it's much MUCH bigger than that amount.

You hear the govt's numbers on benefit fraud all the time in the media, but only rarely do you hear the govts numbers on tax fraud - and that's got nothing to do with tax fraud being of benefit to those owning and controlling the media of course.

[russycarps]

You lefties just keep avoiding the questions you can't/don't want to answer.

Not sure which is worse. Thick people believing what they read in the daily mail. Or so called intellectuals believing that people believe what they read in the daily mail.

*i don't read the daily mail. I like to think that the whole set up and everything written is ironic and for comedy purposes. I.e the "immigrants cause cancer" headlines are just to take the piss out of the ignorant right, and make the lefties flap.

It feels better that way.

[siblin]

the treasury's own figures put welfare fraud at £1.5Bn, and tax fraud at £75Bn - which is the 50 times more I said.

(tho it's worth noting that the treasury are including 'error' with payments by W&P staff within the welfare fraud, and put that at 50% of it .... so tax fraud is actually 100 times as much!).

[wilko8]

Who is arguing that benefit fraud is a bigger problem than tax evasion?? No one.

Are all you lefties in support of Dave's stance on tax evasion? Cracking down on tax havens etc?