"Secularism is a religion...Atheism is a religion"

[kaosmark2]

I do tend to follow that, because it's expressing respect for loss of life. And we're given the choice of whether to follow it or not. I'd be annoyed if management insisted.

My faith is in life, not afterlife.

[Rufus Gwertigan]

I do tend to follow that, because it's expressing respect for loss of life. And we're given the choice of whether to follow it or not. I'd be annoyed if management insisted.

My faith is in life, not afterlife.

[kaosmark2]

At one place I worked they told up to divert the phones and made sure the office was quiet. I carried on working and even sang someone. My line manager went ballistic at me right up to the moment I told him to shut the fuck up. I did in into a tirade that I use Sunday for my day to remember and I would be fucked if I was going to sit quiet in a room due to some misplaced sense of duty. I did have a scot about the fact he had no concept of the words duty and honour. Sorry I am now picking with the rage I had that day.

[Rufus Gwertigan]

"But you can never respect enough"

"But then you're interfering with others' rememberance."

"But...."

Whatever reason you care to use, there are always people who will insist you follow.

[kaosmark2]

Mind you I dont attend wedding or funeral services as I think it is disrespectful as I dont believe in just going through the motions. I dont believe and thats that. I was even pulled up when training to be a counsellor and I refused to greet a muslim woman on my course with "assalamu alaykum". Without asking the woman the group had decided that it would be respectful to say that to her. I refused on the grounds of I did not believe in that voodoo shit. Anyway I called xyz and it was only words. Anyway the irony is the woman found the gesture offensive as it should only be shared with muslims.

[t8yman]

I'm not convinced Clegg is an atheist. His wife is Catholic and his children are being raised Catholic.

[Kyelo]

However in areas with, for example, large muslim and jewish communities, you will definitely find votes being decided by religion.

[feral chile]

Well it's not that management insist, it's more the social pressure to.

I follow it, but I feel pressured to. I haven't actively decided that I WOULDN'T, but I feel this phrase is pretty accurate regarding it:

"It's all very well saying you could choose to abstain, but then you'd be singled out."

[eFestivals]

Your clearly anti democracy Neil

Do fuck off.

Some things are beyond democracy - such as basic human rights.

Or would you agree to me being able to have your daugther gang raped, and think it righteous and democractic, if I could get a majority in favour of that happening?

If you think that a majority brings with it the rights to do anything that majority wants you're far more stupid than I'd ever believed.

[t8yman]

Capital punishment would be passed on a democratic vote we are led to believe. Doesn't make it right. Ironically based upon the religious tenet "an eye for an eye"

Shame how many Christians forget about the "forgiveness teachings" when there's a murder/rape/paedo suspect involved.

[Ed209]

Yet the vast majority of MPs are middle classed, white males who are probably from Christian backgrounds...

[Kyelo]

A little more on the story now http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-devon-16995239

"a deliberate attempt by groups like the National Secular Society and others, who are campaigning to get rid of Christianity as a public faith". Lord Carey

That just shows me that these theists are arguing from ignorance.

[Rufus Gwertigan]

Because constituencies are large areas. I was thinking more about local council elections

[Kyelo]

http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/2036 an epetition for separation of church/state for anyone interested.

[Ed209]

I live in a mainly asian area and the councillors are mainly white.

[Kyelo]

Ok, well I just had a look at the tower hamlets council and the majority are British Asians. Obviously with large Asian populations you're going to get Asian councillors, but my girlfriend used to work in tower hamlets, and religion is extremely important to the community. I genuinely think a large number of muslims here look for Muslim representation.

[Ed209]

If you look at the big picture Muslims make up a small minority in the UK so the representation they vote for is also small. The UK populace as a hole do not I reckon, if they did politics would be like in the US where Jebus, 'Christian values' and 'Christian nation' get thrown about left, right and centre.

[Kyelo]

Oh I totally agree, I'm just saying the minority religions will seek representation of their religion

[Rufus Gwertigan]

Ok, well I just had a look at the tower hamlets council and the majority are British Asians. Obviously with large Asian populations you're going to get Asian councillors, but my girlfriend used to work in tower hamlets, and religion is extremely important to the community. I genuinely think a large number of muslims here look for Muslim representation.

[kaosmark2]

Some people hear are forgetting comments they made to Peterr Dow regarding the BNP / Elections / Deomcoracy...

If I had the time I would grab a few quotes and the inconsicatncyof their opinion here...

If, via democracy, the people want to elect a religious person to implement religious views, like it or not, that's democracy in action.... Like I said a lot of you here are very anti democracy...

[kaosmark2]

If they won an election then they woild have every .... As much as it would disgust me...

But to frank there is plenty about Tory policy etc which disgusts me, effect minorities, yet there is nothing I can do about it... It's the result of the people's vote...

Edited February 12, 2012 by kaosmark2

[kaosmark2]

Oh come on... Get real...

First of all we have the Tories trying to opt out of the current human rights and replace it with a "British bill of rights"...

We have the fact that the majority of nations on this planet are not signed up to any human rights laws...

We have the fact that there is very little anyone can do to force a country to adopt or enforce human right ideals... Specially if they have the nuclear option... (Who in reality is telling china what they can and can not do ??)

Basically, you are clutching at straws...

If via a democratic process a nation wish to elect and enact racist / religious or anti benefit policies (whatever they might be), if that government has a strong enough will, there are very limited options for anyone else to tell them what to do....

Granted we can talk about military actions, restrictions on trade, sanctions and so forth... but if a government wish to do something, they will do it...

Its democracy...

So bringing this back to some sort of reasonable discussion... If the people of the UK wish to be represented and be governed by people of religious feelings, that is the way it will be. Likewise, if they don't they won't...

I am all for bishops etc losing automatic seats in the house of lords etc as long as other automatic seats go. I am totally confident they would win there seats back at the moment as there are enough people out there who would want this.

Democracy doesn't scare me. People of the UK will always strike a balance I feel... I am surprised democracy scares so many others here. To the extent they talk such bullshit.

[kaosmark2]

You don't get that there's a difference between democratic ideals and how its implemented. Just because there's an election involved doesn't make something properly democratic. Rigged votes, restrictions as to who can vote, etc. Democratic principles go beyond "Acceptable people vote for a ruler, then that ruler can do whatever they want"

[kaosmark2]

Democracy isn't getting steadily eroded, it's getting added to. The original Greek democracy wasn't, because it excluded women, the poor, etc.

The main point was saying that there is a diff between what people were criticising Dow for and saying that true democracy doesn't allow the majority to fuck the minority over.

[abdoujaparov]

Sadam took control via democracy...