Football 2011-2012

[eFestivals]

Yep. I've said that in an earlier post. Nobody was saying Cantona shouldn't have played for Utd again though. Not to the extent that people are saying it about Suarez anyway. And it wasn't a racist charge against Cantona. Not comparable. Fergie also stood by Keano after the tackle on Haaland. Again, not comparable.

I see upping things to violence off the field as the far greater crime.

If Evra had (at the time) punched Suarez for his abuse, then I'd see that as far lesser than what Cantona did.

Again, really badly handled by LFC. They should have sat Suarez down and made sure he knew the importance of it and got 100% commitment from him on the issue, as Fergie did with Evra. Maybe they did?! Suarez's refusal is even worse if so.

PMSL - yeah,. Evra was dignity personified.

Evra failed to stick to his word no less than Suarez did.

One has the greater justificatrion for failing to stick to their word, if only one (the other one) has been in the wrong.

I strongly suspect that there's lies on both sides of the original incident. With Evra in fact, that part is proven by his changed allegations. If my suspicions are correct then they're both as bad as each other.

[The Nal]

Evra failed to stick to his word no less than Suarez did.

[eFestivals]

Oh I have grasped you think he's innocent... We all go around pinching arms and calling people Negros as signs of affection....

Give over man... Weill leave you to your craziness....

The craziness is your stupidity, your inability to understand simple concepts, such as any guilty verdict not necessarily being the truth of things, and how people are entitled to act if they are innocenbt despite having been found guilty.

Along with your craziness in being totally unable to comprehend my clear statement that I believe Suarez is probably guilty of at least some racial abuse.

Fact: Evra lied about some of it. That is 100% proven - even the FA report accepts that he did. So where his lies end I don't know, the FA don't know, and you don't know.

But just as what I think counts for nothing, so does what you think. The only thing which counts is the *actual* truth, not a verdict which might be right ot might be wrong.

Suarez - like anyone else - is morally entitled to act on whatever the truth actually is.

[zahidf]

Suarez is morally entitled to do what he wants with regards to handshaking, though lying to your club/supporters was stupid.

On the other hand, if this happened in any other workplace, Suarez would be out by now. Right or wrong, he has made the issue worse.

[eFestivals]

By shaking his hand? Which he said he would do?

That part he stuck to. But according to fergie he also said "I'll act with dignity".

He failed to act with dignity at the handshake.

He failed to act with dignity at half time.

He failed to act with dignity at full time.

In all three instances, the ref or others had to intervene becaused of Evra's - and not Suarez's - actions.

None of that was dignified.

All of that is aside from Suarez not giving the handshake I think he should have given. It's not like Suarez gave Evra the V sign or whatever to provoke it, he just didn't take the hand that was offered as he's entitled to do.

Whatever you think about Suarez doing that, Suarez swerved that handshake (at the moment of the handshake) in a dignified way, and acted (in the public view, at least) with dignity thru-out. Evra did not.

By failing to act with dignity, Evra made himself look a prick.

Edited February 13, 2012 by eFestivals

[Kowalski]

Fact: Evra lied about some of it. That is 100% proven - even the FA report accepts that he did. So where his lies end I don't know, the FA don't know, and you don't know.

[Kowalski]

Whatever you think about Suarez doing that, Suarez swerved that handshake (at the moment of the handshake) in a dignified way, and acted (in the public view, at least) with dignity thru-out. Evra did not.

[The Nal]

Wolves have sacked Mccarthy...

Idiots

Edited February 13, 2012 by The Nal

[The Nal]

A shit load of money... Outside of that there best chance was with Mccarthy for me...

I just find it disgraceful. The guy gives them Premership football, a dream they probably can never maintain, so to sack him for not obtaining what would probably be impossible is a bit nasty to me...

Im always proud we never sacked Joe Royle.... The guy gave Oldham the dream and we lived it with him from start to the end. The way it should be...

[thetime]

Not very often I agree with barry!

Suarez could of shot evra in the head and it would still be evras fault in mrefests eyes.

[The Nal]

Surely Wolves have someone lined up? Warnock?

[eFestivals]

That was a quote relating to the handshake. Fergie also said "he shouldn't have done that" about the celebration.

Evra failed to be dignified when Suarez wouldn't shake his hand.

Evra? He was shocked!

So? It still wasn't dignified. Nor was chasing after Suarez about it at half time - it's not like Evra didn't know why Suarez refused.

How? Was Suarez who kicked the ball at the bench.

against the hoardings.

Standard on-pitch frustration from any player.

True, understandable though.

no more or less understandable than Suarez not wanting to shake his hand. But, as I said, not dignified.

Yeah, because it was Evra who made a mess of the handshake.

the

There is no obligation to shake - as the FA/Prem have just now stated with their 'no action' woprds.

He "swerved the handshake in a dignified way". What are you on about?

If you're not going to shake someone's hand, then the dignified way to do that is not shake their hand but make nothing else of it - which is precisely what Suarez did.

FFS, it's not difficult. If Suarez had been wanting to stir things up there were millions of things hew might have done to do that. He did none of them.

He refused to shake Evra's hand - as he's entitled to do - but made nothing else of anything.

I've got to say, despite the outside the whistle stuff, the game itself was played by all players in an exempary way - and they all should be applauded for that.

Shame about the twattish behavoiur from some outside of the actual game, include Rio (tho at the lower end of things). As I posted on Saturday, Rooney got it spot on.

[The Nal]

Tevez back training for City tomorrow.

Pride swallowed there Roberto Thats what the business end of the season will do to people! Desperate stuff. Should never play for the club again.

Was talking to a City fans who spent 22 hours on a bus for the Munich game. Not impressed.

[strummer77]

I see we haven't moved in then

Suarez was an idiot for lying to the club as it transpires. Someone in control of PR/our CEO (!) should have said something to Kenny before he went on air. Major errors all round. Don't agree with Neil that it was dignified in the handshake at all considering he lied to Kenny and Damien. However he did react well to Evra's taunting if that's the smallest bit of praise possible.

At the same time Ferguson's comments were plain out of order considering the support he gave Peter S for alleged racism (dropped for 'no proof' wasn't it?...), Cantona for his GBH (although the fan may have deserved it) and the way players from his side have refused to shake hands for far pettier reasons (Scholes and Carroll on Vieira anyone?!). Also this idea of Evra maintaing dignity, which Ferguson promoted in his interview, during/after the game is laughable. Evra's reaction was not natural or understandable and was just as likely to 'cause a riot'.

At the end of the day though, this is over the lack of an insincere handshake and a few childish celebrations. This isn't another racist incident.

John Barnes views on TalkSport yesterday were very interesting from a man who actually knows how serious this all is. Not easily digestible some of his views but interesting.

Souness mentioned... LMAO

Warnock would be a good choice IMO... Guy should never have been sacked either for similar reasons...

Edited February 13, 2012 by strummer77

[eFestivals]

Not very often I agree with barry!

Suarez could of shot evra in the head and it would still be evras fault in mrefests eyes.

Oh do fuck off.

Just because one person acts the twat doesn't then make it acceptable for anyone else to act the twat in response.

Suarez didn't punch Evra on Saturday, he only refused to shake his hand. While I think Suarez should have shaken his hand, he's entitled to not shake his hand.

Evra's response to that was a very long way from the 'dignified' he'd told fergie he'd act.

[The Nal]

He refused to shake Evra's hand - as he's entitled to do - but made nothing else of anything.

Edited February 13, 2012 by The Nal

[eFestivals]

Don't agree with Neil that it was dignified in the handshake at all considering he lied to Kenny and Damien.

i guess you've missed some of my posts.

The lying was 100% wrong.

That aside, if anyone is going to swerve a handshake - as they are all entitled to do - then Suarez did it with the most dignity possible, because he made nothing else of it.

At the same time Ferguson's comments were plain out of order considering the support he gave Peter S for alleged racism, Cantona for his GBH (although the fan may have deserved it) and the way players from his side have refused to shake hands for far pettier reasons (Scholes and Carroll on Vieira anyone?!). Also this idea of Evra maintaing dignity (which Ferguson promoted in his interview) during/after the game is laughable. Evra's reaction was not natural or understandable and was just as likely to 'cause a riot'.

spot on - and all of the things I've been getting at.,

[strummer77]

the manager being undermined and the owners having to step in to clean the mess up as it appears Daglish can't do it himself.

Edited February 13, 2012 by strummer77

[Kowalski]

Even if Suarez is innocent and Evra made the whole thing up, he had the chance to be the bigger man and portray himself better than his current status of "racist, cheating thug".

A bigger issue is Suarez lying to everyone at LFC about his handshake intentions - he seems to be a bit of a loose cannon. If he was my player, I'd be shipping him.

[The Nal]

Strummer, heard Barnes on ESPN at the weekend. The man speaks sense. Its not being dealt with properly. Hes right. As below.

Last I'll say on Suarez/LFC.

“People are already speculating on the pre-match ceremony. But from Luis’s point of view, we have spoken to him and I know he will shake the hand of Patrice Evra and the other Manchester United players before the game.”

Kenny Daglish. Wednesday 8th February.

[eFestivals]

And thats dignified is it? Despite saying 48 hours before to his club and manager that he would do it?!

there's zero that's dignified or right about the lying. How many times do I have to say that?

But at the actual moment of refusing to shake Evra's hand (looking at just that moment), there was nothing at all undignified about it. If he believes he has justifable reason* to refuse that handshake then that is his right.

(* I don't think he has, but I don't know for sure and neither do you).

He could have made a show of some kind about it. He didn't. He simply avoided Evra's hand and moved on.

His "dignified behaviour" has lead to scathing articles world wide, the manager being undermined and the owners having to step in to clean the mess up as it appears Daglish can't do it himself. which may or may not be true.

I'm glad you included that last part and didn't keep to what might be invention.

Labelling Evra as the undignified one and focusing on Utd more than Liverpool is Walter Mitty stuff. Even from a staunch ABU like yourself.

Oh do fuck off. See my initial post made on Saturday, and let its contents enter your brain.

Suarez was wrong to lie to his club. But that's the start and end of his wrong-doing around Saturday.

None of that gives Evra any right to act a twat at three separate points on Saturday, or Rio to get involved with something nothing to do with him.

Neither does it give fergie the right to make bollocks statements, when he's done - and still doing - nothing different to Dalglish around his own players.

Dalglish made some huge errors too, but they are in the main Suarez's fault because of his lie.

[strummer77]

Even if Suarez is innocent and Evra made the whole thing up, he had the chance to be the bigger man and portray himself better than his current status of "racist, cheating thug".

A bigger issue is Suarez lying to everyone at LFC about his handshake intentions - he seems to be a bit of a loose cannon. If he was my player, I'd be shipping him.

[strummer77]

Rumours about Morgan going for Curbishley at Wolves?

[The Nal]

But at the actual moment of refusing to shake Evra's hand (looking at just that moment), there was nothing at all undignified about it. If

[strummer77]

I love the fact that Fergie makes "bollocks statements" yet Daglish has only "made some huge errors too".

Daglish has talked more bollocks than anyone. Especially after Suarez hung him out to dry.