Football 2011-2012

[eFestivals]

Taking the reverse opinion couldnt you also say that the top teams that liverpool have beaten are more than capable of beating liverpool on the basis they have beaten teams that liverpool cant!

the thing is, real results on the pitch show that as false. They might be 'capable' of beating Liverpool but the fact is that (as a generalisation, there's been exceptions) they're not.

[pink_triangle]

Johnson isn't a worry. If his form drops then he'll be dropped and replaced by the already-better Kelly.

There might be places to worry about whether Liverpool can maintain their form to date, but Johnson isn't one of them.

[pink_triangle]

the thing is, real results on the pitch show that as false. They might be 'capable' of beating Liverpool but the fact is that (as a generalisation, there's been exceptions) they're not.

[eFestivals]

Agreed, but I dont think the top teams starting to beat liverpool is any less likely than liverpool suddenly regularly beating the bottom ones. In the league there are far more poor teams than good ones and you get equal points for beating both. Struggling to beat the poorer teams isnt just an anomalie for liverpool this season, its been happening for a while, no reason for me to think it will suddenly turn around.

the difference this season is that while they might not be beating them, they have certainly deserved to win the majority of those games.

Liverpool's main problem this season has been getting the ball to hit the back of the net - but not because they can't dominate games, not because they haven't been making lots of decent chances, not because they've not been getting shots away, and not because those shots have been off-target or weak shots.

From one angle it could be said to be just down to poor luck - tho I accept that it's also true that a team makes their own luck.

As I've said several times, there's too many of liverpool's players who are just that bit short of the quality needed, so that issue is within the team rather than purely luck. But I'd still say they've often been unlucky in not winning some of those games.

[The Nal]

Good interview with Fergie from the New York Times last week. Only saw some of it in the Guardian today.

"For instance, we have an issue with Brazilians because they eat late. They’re a nightmare."

Cant wait for tomorrow. Utd missing Rooney, Nani, Rio and Jones though!

Edited January 27, 2012 by The Nal

[kaosmark2]

Debatable.

Man utd 1996 double winning side, arsenal paid 11m for henry, bergkamp 7.5m and utd whole first team didnt cost much more.

Schmeicel 1m approx

Irwin 1m approx

Bruce 1m approx

G neville free

Pallister 2m approx

Giggs free

Becks free

Scholes free

Keane 3m approx

Cantona 1.5m

Cole 7m

Just a thought about pound for pound.

[jammy2211]

you might choose to interpret my words in that way, but that very definitely wasn't what I was meaning.

as others here might remember from that previous discussion, we've certainly compared Liverpool's and Spuirs spending here before and at that time the listings we'd used showed Spurs spending more.

Until that previous discussion I was of the belief that Liverpool would have spent much more, but that certainly wasn't the case with the listings we used at that time.

While your list might be the more accurate of the two, it might not be either. Neither of us has any real way of knowing.

[jammy2211]

Well this century LFC have won a lot more than THFC so it would be surprising if over the course of the decade they had spent less.

The seasons from around 05/06 until 10/11 the net spend of Spurs in considerably higher, that's a fairly recent and relevant 6 season cycle. Only added this in my head but it is about 117.9m (Spurs) to £54.6m (LFC). That suggests that Spurs should have been in a far stronger position than Liverpool going into this summer. It actually suggests that Rafa's Liverpool were doing rather better than people made out.

Admittedly there was a BIG difference in net spends this year which evens it up somewhat, but then that isn't including the fairly unique situation of the Adebayor loan which is a £20m player for free. Full credit for them getting him but you don't often get payers of that value thrown at you for for nothing. However they're either going to have to buy him or buy someone of the equivalent standard to keep them at the same level as this year- and that is going to cost them £20m+. They're only delaying spending that money.

Of course some all of this needs more context to. Liverpool spent more than United last decade (apparently). Whilst obviously some of this was offset by Ronaldo and Tevez being a loan there's a more pragmatic reason for this: United had just won a treble going into 2000. They didn't need to spend as much: some of their treble winning squad hung around for most of the next decade!. In comparison Liverpool had just won two trophies in the whole of the 1990s. It's all pointless though. Different lists say different things and there's various ways to justify things. In a few years nobody remembers how much you spend. You remember who won what.

It's sad that money is analysed and means so much... people go for fourth instead of a cup. People won't remember the former, there's only glory and nostalgia in the latter.

[eFestivals]

Okay then, if you ignore the fact that Liverpool nearly spend double on wages, ignore the past 18 months where Liverpool had a large net spend and Spurs recouped money, choose a list that favours Liverpool, ignore both clubs fiscal earnings in the time periods posted previous and fiddle the dates a bit so it reflects favourably on LIverpool, then yeah, maybes Spurs are spending slightly more .

Be a dick if you want to.

I was simply repeating to you the investigation people here (not me!) did into this a couple of years or so ago, which showed that Spurs had spent more.

[strummer77]

The one thing I will give you is Liverpools big spending is maybe a bit too recent to be doing so well with it yet... no excuses next season I guess. Spurs got 4th the season after they spent £80m or so.

I'd also say Adebayor or no Adebayor it's probably Liverpool who more need to be putting £20m up for a new striker... albeit both teams definitely do.

[jammy2211]

Be a dick if you want to.

I was simply repeating to you the investigation people here (not me!) did into this a couple of years or so ago, which showed that Spurs had spent more.

[jammy2211]

Oh I agree no excuses next year, but I left out this year on my comparisons because it is too early to have a massive affect. It takes time for a whole new team to gel. Saying that it is probably slightly harder to get fourth now City have clicked into gear.

I 100% agree with you on the Adebayor point.

Yep. That's exactly the point it makes. The TPI is a very interesting read in 'Pay as you Play'. Shows how the transfer markets have changed and works out (approx.) what each player costs in todays terms. Very interesting.

[Stash]

It did reference interest, changing levels in the transfer market. The cheapest team is always going to be from an earlier period.

[kaosmark2]

Bergkamp joined in 95 didn't he?

[kaosmark2]

Great win for Liverpool. Under the cosh a bit both sides of halftime, but really dominated for the last 30 minutes or so. Carroll did well as a target man, I've got a feeling he could improve a bit more if he actually gets a goal. That said, dominating De Gea didn't seem that hard to do.

[thetime]

well done liverpool, played the game very well playing us on the break. Turned out that taking scholes of with chico cost us the game, scholes was running the midfield and going for the win probably gave us the defeat.

[strummer77]

Was a great victory and the fans deserve some credit on both sides really. Everyone looking for a major story and they didn't really get it. Bit of booing, a few typical unsavoury chants about disasters but generally it went down as well as could be expected. People/media will dig up that photo like Barry just has to stir some tension but generally I think both sides will be happy with how it went down. It could have been a lot worse.

Looking at the team sheets before the match started I couldn't help but notice how weak both United and Liverpool teams where...

Anyway, it was a close and enjoyable game...

I wonder what was happening here :

Edited January 28, 2012 by strummer77

[thetime]

Looking at the team sheets before the match started I couldn't help but notice how weak both United and Liverpool teams where...

Anyway, it was a close and enjoyable game...

I wonder what was happening here :

[kaosmark2]

For the benefit of who ?

[strummer77]

Merseyside Police reviewing TV footage after claims a fan made a racist gesture at Liverpool-Manchester Utd cup tie

Edited January 28, 2012 by strummer77

[strummer77]

I was on holiday...

Edited January 28, 2012 by strummer77

[kaosmark2]

At what point is it appropriate to yawn?

Or create a racism in football thread to dump this conversation in so we can just talk about the actual football?

[strummer77]

If I see a racist incident I will no doubt comment on it on here. Your just pissed because again its your fans covering themselves in glory... Don't shoot the messenger...

Edited January 28, 2012 by strummer77

[strummer77]

At what point is it appropriate to yawn?

Or create a racism in football thread to dump this conversation in so we can just talk about the actual football?

[thetime]

Not pissed off at all. Couldn't find many happier men around at the moment. Absolutely delighted here with the game and how the vast majority of fans handled themselves. An idiot perhaps making a monkey gesture and a few c**ts singing songs about Hillsborough aside, that went well.

Just pointing out the hypocrisy and pointless nature of trying to stir this up again mate. If you can't recognise that minorities of fans do things like that all the time then that's fine. There's plenty of horrid and racist chants that get full on airings, and I could list them now but we don't come on posting images and videos to start debates about all of them do we?

Both sets of fans were fairly restrained today considering the build up and hype this game was given. The media wanted a huge story but didn't get one. A lot of credit for the majority of fans acting well must go to Ferguson (particularly) and Dalglish and both sets of players though who tried to defuse tensions as those around them in the media tried to create them.

Anyway I'm delighted. What a week for the Kenny after the stick he took last satrday . A domestic double will do me nicely.