Do you smoke?

[The Nal]

What about blokes putting their hands down their bags in bed or on the couch Worm. Whats the thoughts behind that?

[worm]

What about blokes putting their hands down their bags in bed or on the couch Worm. Whats the thoughts behind that?

[worm]

It might be prudent to point out at this point that there's a significant difference between habit and addiction.

[The Nal]

What's that you're saying Chief?

[feral chile]

It might be prudent to point out at this point that there's a significant difference between habit and addiction.

[amfy]

Psychosomatic addiction is comparatively easy to cure, though I hesitate to call it a cure. It's also unwise to think that physiological addiction is gone. It's never gone - just ask a reformed smoker, heroin addict or alcoholic.

[worm]

yes... in the end it doesn't make much difference what type of addiction it is, to deal with it (if you choose to) each instance needs to be taken pretty much in isolation. One person with exactly the same addiction as someone else will need a different 'plan' to the other person because of an almost infifnite number of differences in personality, situation, circumstances, etc

[worm]

the main difference with emotional/psychological addictions and physical ones is the way the body deals with the withdrawl.

[worm]

You mentioned childrens security blankets. Is that similar to a fully grown male with his hand "protecting" his swingers.

Edited March 11, 2011 by worm

[worm]

It's when that habit becomes a problem and you can't break the habit that you'd call it an addiction.

[worm]

Physical addiction can be broken easily in under 2 weeks on detox meds. A straight rattle off heroin will leave physical addiction behind in around 5 days (Peak withdrawal between days 2-3). It is psychological addiction which is never gone.

Crack for example isn't physically addictive atall, but the psychological addiction is strong enough to make it feel like it is. After an initial detox period, what a heroin user is experiencing in terms of wanting to go back to it is similar to a crack user, a strong psychological addiction.

You give up smoking cigarettes, the physical addiction is gone in under a week, but somehow you will still find yourself craving in trigger situations (whether fun times or stressful times) for years. That is psychological addiction, the paths in your brain that tell you a cigarette is what you need in this situation.

Ask anyone in drug treatment, they will say "getting off gear is easy, staying off is the hard part"

Edited March 11, 2011 by worm

[feral chile]

the way an addiction is caused is irrelevant. My mum became addicted to valium, not because of any desire, she was prescribed it back in the days when it was thought of as a wonder drug without any thought for any side effects it might have (like addiction)

people drink for all kinds of reasons too

and smoke..

how many people started smoking simply because they think it's the thing to do.. be cool, etc.

[worm]

the way an addiction is caused is irrelevant.

[feral chile]

You said ''the main difference with emotional/psychological addictions and physical ones is the way the body deals with the withdrawl.''. You weren't referring to addiction, but to the causes of addiction/addictive behaviour.

Meaning that she desired it.

The desire is the addiction. You can't do something without a desire to do so.

[worm]

desired it against her will?

[feral chile]

A logical impossibility. Bad faith etc. She desired it more than she desired not to. A battle of wills, in which the addictive won out.

An addiction is a psychological concept entirely because it is an entity (albeit a psychological one) that has a will.

[worm]

ok I understand this in terms of behaviourist analysis - short term versus long term reinforcement schedules - what would the analysis be in terms of desire?

Would the addiction be the result of short term acute desire outweighing the longer term desire to be free of it? Or is it to do with positive and negative desire? Positive (smoking) versus negative (without-smoking)?

I am aware that I'm still thinking in behaviourist terms but it is pretty ingrained.

[feral chile]

It's littered with language and identity. But ultimately, it's I don't want to be an addict versus I want some drugs. But even that deconstruction of desire is immersed in language.

The example you've given relating to long and short term conflicts seems fairly indicative of an identity conflict though. Going back to your example of scheduled quitting, that would be the type of identity that would excuse short term 'rewards'.

[worm]

ok so it seems like the desire for instant gratification is conflicting with the desire to change identity.

And then giving in to the craving brings them to identify with the role of a smoker rather than a non-smoker?

[worm]

she didn't desire it, she didn't know it existed. She desired some treatment to stop her feeling suicidal, yes. She desired not to have been left alone to bring up 3 kids. She didn't desire any drugs.

Edited March 11, 2011 by worm

[worm]

she knew she was addicted when she couldn't stop taking them without feeling suicidal again

[worm]

no desire though

[feral chile]

Of course it is. Not a wanton desire, but a desire nevertheless.

[worm]

Can we call it motivation instead? Desire does have positive connotations. She might have wanted to feel happy but absolutely hated taking medication.

[worm]

because how it ended up is irrelevant... it doesn't help any further understanding of 'why'?