Robbery by another name

[Uncle Liam]

Our government arent to be trusted or believed. You Brits fuming about our low corp tax rates need to chill on the funky vibe. I've no confidence that we'll be allowed to maintain them - never mind be able to.

BTW Liam - we're more resilient than you give us credit for. We'll get through this. And we'll keep filling the coffers of the countless UK businesses and jobs we support over here thanks.

[Wooderson]

Ultimately, yes.

This economic crisis is not going to be solved without someone defaulting. Without someone defaulting, all of the same issues remain and we're just fiddling round the edges without solving anything. Without someone defaulting, we'll be here again and again and again and again.

Without someone defaulting, the interest rates that are charged for sovereign debts are meaningless - it simply becomes a transfer of wealth from 'normal' people to the rich on the basis of nothing at all, with no benefit back to those who are losing their wealth.

A simple look at growth rates, inflation rates and pay rates gets to show that we've all got hugely more wealthy in the last 20 years without there being the growth in production to justify it. But of course, those who have benefited the most are the richest (with the oft-stated "the rich are getting richer while the poor have got poorer" [tho that's not entirely factually accurate]) which ultimately means that there's been a transfer of wealth to those rich.

So now settlement day has come, and there's not the money to settle the debts - but somehow there's the stupid idea that all of the debts have to be paid by the poorest, and that it's morally wrong to take back the transfer of w3ealth that caused all of this.

Yet until we do, we cure nothing. At best we merely postpone the inevitable.

[Wooderson]

No one has yet given any explanation of how and when the Irish Republic will recover.

Ultimately, the Euro will survive this. It better had for Ireland as in reality its the only thing thats keeping them from being the new Iceland, i.e. a worthless currency with debts increasing by the day and little strategic interest for anyone to bail them out. I daresay once this crisis is through, (and by that I mean when Spain and Portugal have sorted themselves out as well) we'll see something of a return to the Europe of old, in terms of Economic division. The Cold War defined European division on east/west grounds, but the reality is that Europe is divided on North/South grounds. Those with access to the core markets of Germany, France, the Benelux countries, Northern Italy, (so we're talking about Slovakia, Czech Republic, Slovenia, Poland, as well as the Scandinavian countries etc) will prosper, whereas those in the region with little or no industrial base and poor infrastructure who gorged themselves on cheap credit (Spain, Portugal, Greece etc) will once again become the places where northern european go on holiday. As for Ireland, with its lack of industrial base, mediocre transport and marginal location simply resembles a southern European country with shitty weather. And as I may have said, who is now going to go to Ireland on holiday? Especially when you can get a cheap flight to Krakow, Bratislava etc, have nicer weather and cheaper beer.

[Uncle Liam]

We will get out of it very very very slowly indeed! It will take years of hardship (20+?) but there were worse days behind and dare I say it there are better days ahead.

Hopefully the social costs of rescue will translate to political costs for the elite that have been in charge of this little rock for all but 30 months since 1987.

There are many more reasons that distinguish Ireland as a place to visit, trade with, do business in... we are not basket cases just yet.

We have a postive future ahead & if our current predictament lends us to being a destination you'd no longer consider visiting well thats a start at least.

[Wooderson]

Care to say what these reasons are?

[Uncle Liam]

I've already stated that the Irish Economy wont recover, for the reasons stated above in some detail. Its not for me to provide the evidence for your argument.

[bunique]

Things really must be bad - one of my cousins is moving to Hull for a job next week

[Wooderson]

Things really must be bad - one of my cousins is moving to Hull for a job next week

[eFestivals]

The country is insolvent. We'll end up defaulting within the next 3/4 years. Its a mess.

Ireland makes Hull look like Tuscany at this stage.

I've been thinking about the claims some have made here about Ireland's balance of payments meaning that the problem is only with the banks but not the economy in general.

If those balance of payments is of much relevance, then how come Ireland are needing a huge incoming of cash from overseas? If what people said about their balance of payments held true they would not need cash from outside the country, they'd already have it within the country.

Meanwhile I see that the Irish govt's solution is to massively raise personal taxation but to keep allowing those foreign corporations to bleed the country dry at ordinary people's expense - exactly the same (tho a difference of degree) as has happened in the UK and many other places. Sooner of later the people of at least one country has got to wake up and recognise that this is the biggest robbery in history - and once that starts it'll move onto other countries.

We're deep in the shit and only digging ourselves in deeper!

[The Nal]

As reported on HIGNFY last night.

[llcoolphil]

Ultimately, yes.

This economic crisis is not going to be solved without someone defaulting. Without someone defaulting, all of the same issues remain and we're just fiddling round the edges without solving anything. Without someone defaulting, we'll be here again and again and again and again.

Without someone defaulting, the interest rates that are charged for sovereign debts are meaningless - it simply becomes a transfer of wealth from 'normal' people to the rich on the basis of nothing at all, with no benefit back to those who are losing their wealth.

A simple look at growth rates, inflation rates and pay rates gets to show that we've all got hugely more wealthy in the last 20 years without there being the growth in production to justify it. But of course, those who have benefited the most are the richest (with the oft-stated "the rich are getting richer while the poor have got poorer" [tho that's not entirely factually accurate]) which ultimately means that there's been a transfer of wealth to those rich.

So now settlement day has come, and there's not the money to settle the debts - but somehow there's the stupid idea that all of the debts have to be paid by the poorest, and that it's morally wrong to take back the transfer of w3ealth that caused all of this.

Yet until we do, we cure nothing. At best we merely postpone the inevitable.

[The Nal]