Football 2010-2011

[TheGayTent]

and a crap manager.

[Tugger2k]

No. All of that is spot on. The only difference is that Gradi skill is doing it on the pitch- not putting it all together in programmes, courses, development sessions, etc etc and disseminating it through coaching programmes.

Asking Gradi to administrate a countrywide programme to thousands of kids coaches wouldn't work. The important bit is to ensure that Gradi's methods are known, watched, taught etc.

And like I said - he wouldn't have taken the role - possibly because he would have known that himself - but definitely because he knows that he wouldn't have enjoyed it. Just like he turned down every offer he was ever made to manage at a higher level. Which were many!

[TheGayTent]

P.S. Tugger

Many of the items on the 25 point plan, have come as a direct result of visiting, watching, learning, and listening to people such as Gradi and Carr.

[ampersand]

I'd argue that point. His best players were sold from under him and not replaced. Where were Boro when Gibson sacked him, and where were they after his replacement took over?

[TheGayTent]

all fair points, but the 1st person southgate goes to see should be gradi. its one of the greatest losses to english football that he wasnt even brought on board at a consulting level at some point, and now, at 69, he definitly wouldnt want the hassle

seeing as part of southgates remit is

"Southgate will also work with Sir Trevor Brooking on implementing the FA's latest review of coaching for five- to 16-year-olds"

they need to consulting the best coaches in the country at polishing the rough diamonds

Edited February 10, 2011 by TheGayTent

[Tugger2k]

Perfect sense isn't it and not rocket science. Amazing that until the last few years, this has never been done. The 25 point plan and the strategy behind it has come from a massive exercise that has done exactly what you suggest.

Wrote my P.S. before had seen the above.

[TheGayTent]

Part, and it's only a part of Southgate's remit will be to increase the number of coaches at all levels on the right hand side of the diagram. Also, to ensure that the training required to achieve those badges is right - the course content is right, the methods of teaching are correct, it's widely available to all, etc etc

[The Nal]

dont get me started

people like Gradi, Carr, Brady, Huw Jennings etc, should have been working alongside the fa for the last 20 years.

it simply boggles me that the talents and training methods of these men have not been assessed, and replicated, across the whole of football. only now are we waking up to the fact that far too many of our talented youngsters dont make it (for a multitude of reasons) and even more talented kids are never even picked up or simply slip through the cracks in the development process

as to whether southgate is the right man for the job, im undecided. i'm willing to give the bloke a chance.

but as you say, unless the recommendations are followed through across the board, we wont really know if its worked for years yet

[TheGayTent]

dont get me started

people like Gradi, Carr, Brady, Huw Jennings etc, should have been working alongside the fa for the last 20 years.

it simply boggles me that the talents and training methods of these men have not been assessed, and replicated, across the whole of football. only now are we waking up to the fact that far too many of our talented youngsters dont make it (for a multitude of reasons) and even more talented kids are never even picked up or simply slip through the cracks in the development process

as to whether southgate is the right man for the job, im undecided. i'm willing to give the bloke a chance.

but as you say, unless the recommendations are followed through across the board, we wont really know if its worked for years yet

[Tugger2k]

You back posting in case Spurs win the Champo League?

[worm]

yeah, but you constantly prove your fantastic knowledge of the game - so much so that you don't even know the name of the club you pretend to support.

[Tugger2k]

It'll take time and money for it to work - and most importantly for people to buy into it. Including the parents of 7 year old children playing for their local team...

Edited February 10, 2011 by Tugger2k

[eFestivals]

Though I don't tend to agree with things that massively contradict me and then use them as evidence of my case being right. Something you did splendidly yesterday and once again today.

PMSL - that's exactly what you've done in the last day. And not me.

Yesterday in your mind there was no discrimination by top unis, and today there is. Who'd have thought it eh, you calling yourself wrong.

[eFestivals]

knock the competitive element out of football until they have learnt to be footballers.

while I understand the reasoning behind this, I'm not entirely sure it's going to have the desired effect ... or at least, it'll create problems of its own.

Kids want to play football to play football, not to have constant training sessions. It'll have some level of impact in putting some off continuing playing, and a part of the problem within this country is that fewer and fewer want to play anyway because there's so many options for what they could be doing. The smaller the pool of players that are playing, the greater the likelihood of a potentially great talent won't be one of those players.

[Tugger2k]

while I understand the reasoning behind this, I'm not entirely sure it's going to have the desired effect ... or at least, it'll create problems of its own.

Kids want to play football to play football, not to have constant training sessions. It'll have some level of impact in putting some off continuing playing, and a part of the problem within this country is that fewer and fewer want to play anyway because there's so many options for what they could be doing. The smaller the pool of players that are playing, the greater the likelihood of a potentially great talent won't be one of those players.

[thetime]

un-interesting fact of the day...

west ham united is a anagram for the new stadium

[Paul ™]

un-interesting fact of the day...

west ham united is a anagram for the new stadium

[Steve P]

i still believe that there should be competitive 'friendlies' - say up to the age of 12, but the league system, where every mistake could cost you 3 points, where success and failure are 'measured' by where you finish in a league, that at that age, really doesnt matter

i know it would have difficulties, and that kids are naturally competitive. but by learning to win and lose, in a system where, at the end of the season, the odd defeat wouldnt matter, might encourage them to play more expressive football!!

[TheGayTent]

Kids just want to play with a football. Yes they have a competitive streak, but that streak can be satisfied by a number of 'games' that aren't 11 a side football on an eleven a side pitch with a size 5 football.

Take this example of a training session for 8-11 year olds

[ampersand]

Kids just want to play with a football. Yes they have a competitive streak, but that streak can be satisfied by a number of 'games' that aren't 11 a side football on an eleven a side pitch with a size 5 football.

Take this example of a training session for 8-11 year olds

[eFestivals]

i see what your saying, but i didnt entirely make myself clear

i still believe that there should be competitive 'friendlies' - say up to the age of 12, but the league system, where every mistake could cost you 3 points, where success and failure are 'measured' by where you finish in a league, that at that age, really doesnt matter

i know it would have difficulties, and that kids are naturally competitive. but by learning to win and lose, in a system where, at the end of the season, the odd defeat wouldnt matter, might encourage them to play more expressive football!!

if i use my own kid as an example - tho it's fair to say he wasn't and still isn't hugely interested in football - he was quite happy to play when it was matches he was playing, i guess in part as it was a way of hanging out with his mates who were also playing. When it started to be less about playing and more about teaching technical aspects of the game, he lost interest.

Now i realise that what happened with him won't be the same for all kids, and particular those with a stronger interest in football, but i still think that even some of the keener ones will get put off by the fact that less time is spent playing and more time being taught about aspects of the game - kids have enough of being taught stuff within school classrooms, and aren't madly keen to spend their leisure time doing more of the same if they can help it.

Getting the balance right between the 'fun' side of the game - cos it's the fun that appeals to kids - and trying to teach them to play the game in a better manner will be hugely important to whether these changes succeed or not. It's important that the FA remembers that not everyone who has an interest in football has an interest in being the next David Beckham, because if they lose site of that not only do they risk not finding a new generation of players for the professional game at the standard they're wanting, they also risk losing the game its next generation of fans to sustain the professional game.

[TheGayTent]

agreed. though in my youth, we always focussed too much on the big game at the end of training. very few of us actually cared about the 'training' bit at the start with technique. which i wish i had with hindsight. i think a lot of us just saw it as a chore. though that's probably more down to the 'coaches' we had.

livingston have started to use futsal, and i hope every other club in scotland and britain gets to grips with it too. clearly the way forward!

[eFestivals]

Kids just want to play with a football. Yes they have a competitive streak, but that streak can be satisfied by a number of 'games' that aren't 11 a side football on an eleven a side pitch with a size 5 football.

Take this example of a training session for 8-11 year olds

sadly, that's exactly the sort of thing which put my kid off, along with lots of his mates. Around half the players stopped playing, because they weren't 'playing', they were being schooled for a professional sport they weren't interested in playing professionally. They wanted to have fun, not more school.

[TheGayTent]

sadly, that's exactly the sort of thing which put my kid off, along with lots of his mates. Around half the players stopped playing, because they weren't 'playing', they were being schooled for a professional sport they weren't interested in playing professionally. They wanted to have fun, not more school.

Edited February 10, 2011 by TheGayTent

[eFestivals]

This was a local club in a local league? School team? At what age did this occur?

i can't be entirely sure (there's nowt like a woman scorned ) as I had minimal contact with him at around that time, but I think it was a school team rather than a local club, and it was at around age eight.