Football 2010-2011

[The Nal]

Kranjcar looking to leave Spurs. That'll be a good buy for someone. Will he not get his game now thats Huddlestone is injured?

[eFestivals]

I didn't and I'm fairly sure I posted about it. You also agreed to his terms "to shut him up" and then afterwards you saw the opportunity to change them to something more to your liking. You cant just change the terms without consent after they've been agreed.

I changed nothing at any point, aside from agreeing to go with the interpretation of people here of what the bet was.

Having agreed to go with the opinion of people here (as worm did once they'd settled on what that opinion was - I agreed even before they'd settled on something), I never once deviated from that in regards to the bet.

I agreed on going with the views of people here to shut them up on them saying that I was trying to change the interpretation to wiggle out of the bet - the bet and the money involved mattered just about nothing to me, but me standing behind what I'd originally meant with the words I'd used DID matter to me; if I'd have meant "striker partner" I'd have said "strike partner" and not the different "... in partnership with ...".

Worm gave his consent to the bet working on the basis of the general interpretation here, as you'll see for yourself if you read back on the thread (pulling out just one post from it will make no one the wiser, because each quote is in the context of what preceded it).

[worm]

Kranjcar looking to leave Spurs. That'll be a good buy for someone. Will he not get his game now thats Huddlestone is injured?

[eFestivals]

I'm hoping Johnson will arrive on the Wear to replace Richardson. Kranjcar would also be a canny purchase.

I'm hoping that Aldershot will sign Torres. Rooney would be a canny purchase for them too.

[worm]

I'm hoping that Aldershot will sign Torres. Rooney would be a canny purchase for them too.

Edited November 17, 2010 by worm

[eFestivals]

We were set up to sign Johnson, but Man City took him at the last minute.

I was about to say "where's all this mystery money coming from", but a quick google tells me he went to shitty for just £7M - which i'm somewhat astounded by.

edit: but he's waaaaay out of S'land's league now - a club that's only spending £13M on a striker is very unlikely to pay £20M+ on a winger.

Edited November 17, 2010 by eFestivals

[The Nal]

I'm hoping that Aldershot will sign Torres. Rooney would be a canny purchase for them too.

[eFestivals]

who needs mercenaries anyway?

We beat the mighty Brentford Nylons* last night, and are into round two of the FA Cup ... to face the less** than mighty Dover.

(* if you don't get it, you're not old enough )

(** probably too mighty for Aldershot all the same ).

[worm]

I was about to say "where's all this mystery money coming from", but a quick google tells me he went to shitty for just £7M - which i'm somewhat astounded by.

edit: but he's waaaaay out of S'land's league now - a club that's only spending £13M on a striker is very unlikely to pay £20M+ on a winger.

[eFestivals]

Where on earth did you conjur the 20M figure? From the same fantasy source as the 40M for Jones, per chance?

We could afford Johnson and I reckon he'd come if Man City aren't for starting him every game.

£20M is perhaps - just perhaps - over-stating it a little, but he certainly won't leave shitty for anything less than £15M.He's now a player who has proven himself at the top level.

So the same applies - a club that's spending just £13M on a striker isn't going to spend £15M+ on a winger.

[ampersand]

why wouldn't they? did they go out looking for a £13m striker or did they go looking for gyan and pay the asking price?

[worm]

£20M is perhaps - just perhaps - over-stating it a little, but he certainly won't leave shitty for anything less than £15M.He's now a player who has proven himself at the top level.

Edited November 17, 2010 by worm

[eFestivals]

why wouldn't they? did they go out looking for a £13m striker or did they go looking for gyan and pay the asking price?

No idea - but given that the £13M they spent is their record signing and with strikers just about always costing the most for any team, it seems HUGELY unlikely that they'd have had much more to spend on a striker or that they'd soon afterwards go out and spend more on a winger.

The only clubs likely to do that are clubs swimming in cash - and while I don't know anything about Sunderland's finances, it doesn't appear to be the case that they're a club which huge amounts of cash floating about.

Mind you, they might do soon - but if they sell Henderson then they're very unlikely to be a club that would stand a chance of landing A.Johnson, cos he'll want a club that's showing ambition; selling Henderson would show the opposite.

[eFestivals]

By not getting a start for Man City??

By being a player that's getting games despite having to fight for a place with shitty's billionaires, as well being as an automatic England squad member.

You may be right in it going the other way with Man City making some cash from a suspect opportune purchase, year long advert of the player and sale.

opportune or not, he's a player that plenty of clubs with the money both within the UK and o0ut of it would be happy to pay £15M+ plus for as things stand right now.

Incrimental rises mate. Incrimental rises. The team we had probably didn't warrant a record signing goalkeeper, but we got one anyway.

yep, I can see it's building up at S'land, but that's a step too far right now - there's other positions that have much greater need of better players before you start trying to buy a near-world-class midfield.

As I say, it's what you might do with deep pockets, but all things indicate that you don't have them.

[worm]

No idea - but given that the £13M they spent is their record signing and with strikers just about always costing the most for any team, it seems HUGELY unlikely that they'd have had much more to spend on a striker or that they'd soon afterwards go out and spend more on a winger.

[worm]

yep, I can see it's building up at S'land, but that's a step too far right now

[eFestivals]

13M was a steal and he was bought as our number two striker Neil. 13M for our number two, who was intended to be a bench warmer. We're talking here about purchasing a number one winger though, Richardson being the number two.

Richardson is the equivalent of Gyan, not Johnson. Easier just to see it in terms of value to the team though.

I don't disagree that £13M is looking like a great price - but it's one of those things that no one is sure about until he's played a few games. Players often fail to settle, or don't perform at the level they've done elsewhere (Jo for example). So while he looks a bargain now, he was a big risk at the time of purchase.

As for whether he was bought as the number 2, I'm not sure he was - for a start they've not been played together yet have they? To me he's looking like Bent's replacement as number 1 (and always did to me from the moment he was signed), with Bent on his way out either next summer or the summer after at latest (providing that S'land are in the financial position to keep making incremental rises to their squad strength).

And he's a player that you were only in the position to buy having sold Jones to Stoke - without Jones going there was no money for Gyan. So who's getting sold for you to buy A.Johnson, and where you'll need to find all but £5M (at minimum, from how things have been done recently) from selling other players?

The easiest player for you to sell is Henderson (and sell him you will within 18 months, whether you like it or not), but if you sold Henderson there's no way that Johnson would give you a second glance. He will have the option of better clubs, or similar clubs showing more ambition.

[worm]

Mind you, they might do soon - but if they sell Henderson then they're very unlikely to be a club that would stand a chance of landing A.Johnson, cos he'll want a club that's showing ambition; selling Henderson would show the opposite.

[eFestivals]

This is where we disagree. He's perfect. See my last post for further details.

he as a player might be perfect. S'land's financial position is far from perfect.

Can you afford £90k+ a week wages? Nope.

Can you afford to buy without selling? Nope.

It ain't gonna happen, not a chance in hell.

[eFestivals]

Our academy is grooming and producing some fine players now. But we don't need to sell Henderson.

You might not need to sell him, but your needs will count for nothing.

You'll have sold him by the end of the summer window in 2012 at very latest, I guarantee.

[worm]

I don't disagree that £13M is looking like a great price - but it's one of those things that no one is sure about until he's played a few games. Players often fail to settle, or don't perform at the level they've done elsewhere (Jo for example). So while he looks a bargain now, he was a big risk at the time of purchase.

As for whether he was bought as the number 2, I'm not sure he was - for a start they've not been played together yet have they? To me he's looking like Bent's replacement as number 1 (and always did to me from the moment he was signed), with Bent on his way out either next summer or the summer after at latest (providing that S'land are in the financial position to keep making incremental rises to their squad strength).

And he's a player that you were only in the position to buy having sold Jones to Stoke - without Jones going there was no money for Gyan. So who's getting sold for you to buy A.Johnson, and where you'll need to find all but £5M (at minimum, from how things have been done recently) from selling other players?

The easiest player for you to sell is Henderson (and sell him you will within 18 months, whether you like it or not), but if you sold Henderson there's no way that Johnson would give you a second glance. He will have the option of better clubs, or similar clubs showing more ambition.

[worm]

Can you afford £90k+ a week wages? Nope.

Can you afford to buy without selling? Nope.

[worm]

You'll have sold him by the end of the summer window in 2012 at very latest, I guarantee.

[ampersand]

You might not need to sell him, but your needs will count for nothing.

You'll have sold him by the end of the summer window in 2012 at very latest, I guarantee.

[worm]

It boils down to this:

Do Sunderland have investors with deep pockets and cofidence in the team, the business strategy and the returns?

I reckon Sunderland tick the box on all counts for the purchase of Johnson.