Football 2024/25

[thetime]

7 minutes ago, charlierc said:

This seems like the way people will be doing things tbf. A few people aren't exactly thrilled at the economic idea that academies are now becoming more cash cows to help meet PSR, although one could argue twas ever thus and this is just solidifying a trend that had been going on for a little while.

 

At the very least it means Newcastle have work to do given our historically bad academy-to-first-team pipeline.

 

Newcastle got to the party 5-10 years to late. We discussed quite extensively at the takeover, how difficult it would be for Newcastle to do a City/Chelsea. 

 

Nothing has changed on that front. Doing better than the Ashley regime, I don't see Newcastle breaking into the top 2/3 on a consistent level. 

 

 

[Skip997]

So is Slot nowhere near what he at first appeared? Is this the end of a long “new manager bounce”? 
 

Liverpool have been dreadful for a good few weeks. 

[charlierc]

1 hour ago, thetime said:

 

Newcastle got to the party 5-10 years to late. We discussed quite extensively at the takeover, how difficult it would be for Newcastle to do a City/Chelsea. 

 

Nothing has changed on that front. Doing better than the Ashley regime, I don't see Newcastle breaking into the top 2/3 on a consistent level. 

 

 

Oh I was referring more to this annoyed feeling that Forest pulled our pants down with the Anderson & Vlachodimos stuff. I mean, if it helped us avoid a 10 point deduction that some club insiders claim we were skating close too, that's one thing.

 

I think consistently challenging for the top 6 at this phase is a good start, which we seem to be doing - 4th in 22/23, narrowly missed out on top 6 last season, currently in the fight. It's about building it up brick by boring brick imo, which might be easier said than done but heyho.

 

Generally though this seems to have been a thing. It didn't escape people's notice that Everton, Villa and Chelsea seemed to spend a decent chunk of June buying one another's youth prospects.

Edited January 14, 2025 by charlierc

[charlierc]

17 minutes ago, Skip997 said:

So is Slot nowhere near what he at first appeared? Is this the end of a long “new manager bounce”? 
 

Liverpool have been dreadful for a good few weeks. 

It's probably a mix of things. Plausible that the "last dance" stuff I've seen claimed where Alexander-Arnold, van Dijk and Salah are all simultaneously out of contract is causing anxiety over their futures, could be that the lack of an out-and-out holding midfielder is catching up with them, could be a reflection of Trent & Andy Robertson's awkward seasons leading to more goals or could just be that Liverpool have been playing a cluster of difficult games one after another.

 

Forest should get a little credit. The underlying data hints they should be doing a lot worse than they are but they've been bloody effective, as is currently being seen with this game.

[Skip997]

5 minutes ago, charlierc said:

could be a reflection of Trent & Andy Robertson's awkward seasons 

 

Forest should get a little credit. The underlying data hints they should be doing a lot worse than they are but they've been bloody effective, as is currently being seen with this game.

Robertson is finished at the top level. Trent’s “head is the shed”. VVD and Salah are fine. 
 

Re Forest, reluctantly yes. I say reluctantly as I’m not lover of teams happy to let the opposition have 70% possession, but I’d rather them get second than one else 

[thetime]

4 minutes ago, Skip997 said:

Robertson is finished at the top level. Trent’s “head is the shed”. VVD and Salah are fine. 
 

Re Forest, reluctantly yes. I say reluctantly as I’m not lover of teams happy to let the opposition have 70% possession, but I’d rather them get second than one else 

 

Salah doesn't turn up, no party. 

[charlierc]

21 minutes ago, Skip997 said:

Re Forest, reluctantly yes. I say reluctantly as I’m not lover of teams happy to let the opposition have 70% possession, but I’d rather them get second than one else 

As a Mag I'm finding it wild to see Matz Sels' redemption arc. He was signed as a then-club record goalkeeper by Newcastle in 2016, had an awkward 2 months in the Championship, fell behind Karl Darlow and was just brushed off as ill-suited to the English game. Yet since signing for Forest, he's been a revelation and I gather has made a few great saves tonight as well.

 

If nothing else, a draw for Liverpool maintains a six point gap with a game in hand and with Arsenal, Chelsea and Man City all misfiring, it's still ball in the red court. It's fair to be concerned at this recent slippy patch, but the longer y'all avoid defeat, the less margin for error there is for anyone else to catch up.

[kaosmark2]

2 hours ago, thetime said:

 

Chelsea have nailed it on PSR,

 

Sell your hotels to yourself and your women's team to another company owned by the same company, got it.

[thetime]

6 minutes ago, charlierc said:

As a Mag I'm finding it wild to see Matz Sels' redemption arc. He was signed as a then-club record goalkeeper by Newcastle in 2016, had an awkward 2 months in the Championship, fell behind Karl Darlow and was just brushed off as ill-suited to the English game. Yet since signing for Forest, he's been a revelation and I gather has made a few great saves tonight as well.

 

If nothing else, a draw for Liverpool maintains a six point gap with a game in hand and with Arsenal, Chelsea and Man City all misfiring, it's still ball in the red court. It's fair to be concerned at this recent slippy patch, but the longer y'all avoid defeat, the less margin for error there is for anyone else to catch up.

 

We will all see what slots got now, living off klopp's coat tails until now. They should be walking the league really with city's dodgy season. Quality wise it's quite an average league this season, only Liverpool showing consistency. 

[thetime]

Just now, kaosmark2 said:

Sell your hotels to yourself and your women's team to another company owned by the same company, got it.

 

Newcastle should follow the lead, do they have posh hotels up north? 

[charlierc]

3 minutes ago, kaosmark2 said:

Sell your hotels to yourself and your women's team to another company owned by the same company, got it.

 

1 minute ago, thetime said:

 

Newcastle should follow the lead, do they have posh hotels up north? 

Think we'd need to build one to be able sell back to ourselves first.

 

Admittedly most of the area around SJP is student housing as far as I recall so that might be another bit of planning permission to overcome first.

Edited January 14, 2025 by charlierc

[kaosmark2]

Just now, thetime said:

Newcastle should follow the lead, do they have posh hotels up north? 

 

I imagine one will be built by the Saudis under infrastructure spending as part of the stadium revamp/renewal/expansion/new one or whatever. I think infrastructure building doesn't count against PSR, so I certainly assume so, and I imagine they'll attempt the same trick as Chelsea. No delusion that we'll be any better if we can get away with it.

[kaosmark2]

1 minute ago, charlierc said:

Think we'd need to build one to be able sell back to ourselves first.

I imagine that after this ruling about Chelsea that every new owner wanting to pump money in will do so. It'll happen with us, it'll happen at Everton, probably Liverpool. Spurs will sell some attached building/land to their stadium in a similar way. etc etc.

[thetime]

2 minutes ago, kaosmark2 said:

 

I imagine one will be built by the Saudis under infrastructure spending as part of the stadium revamp/renewal/expansion/new one or whatever. I think infrastructure building doesn't count against PSR, so I certainly assume so, and I imagine they'll attempt the same trick as Chelsea. No delusion that we'll be any better if we can get away with it.

 

Hmm Sir John Hall and sons knew that trick...Cough Cough. 

Edited January 14, 2025 by thetime

[kaosmark2]

7 minutes ago, thetime said:

 

living off klopp's coat tails

Most self-congratulating losers?

[thetime]

Just now, kaosmark2 said:

Most self-congratulating losers?

 

Didn't klop say if they won league, he got back to celebrate with the team? f**king narcissist. 

[Skip997]

2 hours ago, thetime said:

 

 

Reminds me of Liverpool when their net spend was very good(coutinho), whilst building for their 1 title win. 

 

19th title win

 

Regardless of what nonsense folks try to come up with 

[thetime]

8 hours ago, Skip997 said:

19th title win

 

Regardless of what nonsense folks try to come up with 

 

*

[Gnomicide]

Not a bad result last night, all things considered. Liverpool much better in the 2nd half but Forrest defended really well, not many teams will come away from there with points if they keep on playing like they did last night.

 

Six points clear, seven clear of the nearest to have played the same games, top of the Champions Leage table and in both cups. Which team wouldn't want that?

[charlierc]

20 hours ago, Skip997 said:

19th title win

 

Regardless of what nonsense folks try to come up with 

Everyone knows football was invented in 1992 after all 😜

[charlierc]

20 hours ago, thetime said:

 

Hmm Sir John Hall and sons knew that trick...Cough Cough. 

I thought the main trick he knew was making it look like he put more money in than he really did.

 

That and being a backer of increasingly further right political views given his backing for Robert Jenrick in last year's Tory leadership contest.

[thetime]

33 minutes ago, charlierc said:

I thought the main trick he knew was making it look like he put more money in than he really did.

 

That and being a backer of increasingly further right political views given his backing for Robert Jenrick in last year's Tory leadership contest.

 

Is he unpopular at Newcastle?

 

Thought would be the opposite, got things moving during the time you should of won the league and an FA Cup final. Got you Keegan, Shearer, Asprilla, Ginola, Ferdinand and the likes. 

 

Which is perhaps your best era in any of our lifetimes. 

[charlierc]

1 hour ago, thetime said:

 

Is he unpopular at Newcastle?

 

Thought would be the opposite, got things moving during the time you should of won the league and an FA Cup final. Got you Keegan, Shearer, Asprilla, Ginola, Ferdinand and the likes. 

 

Which is perhaps your best era in any of our lifetimes. 

Mixed feelings imo. Of course there will be a respect from some given he took over a club going nowhere under a deeply unpopular board in what's now the Championship and at risk of going out of business in the late 80s/early 90s to a genuine Premier League power player, one that should really have won a league title, as well as reaching 2 FA Cup finals in the late 90s and reaching the Champions League again in the early 2000s under Bobby Robson, attracted a lot of big name players and modernised St James' Park twice over to its current capacity.

 

Where it gets more complex is that a lot of his finance was put in from loans and when the club was floated as a PLC in the mid-90s, it was used to pay them back, mostly through fans who brought the shares whose value plummeted. Picking a fight with fans over stadium seats, raising ticket/shirt prices, having his son slag off the fans in the infamous Fake Sheikh debacle, the club being in a bad way financially in 2007 when Hall cashed out and the like didn't help.

 

I think it looks better now than it did both for the fact the 90s were such an iconic time in Newcastle's history and the Mike Ashley era that followed was a slog.

 

I like this video from just before the Saudi takeover went through exploring the nuance.

[thetime]

24 minutes ago, charlierc said:

Mixed feelings imo. Of course there will be a respect from some given he took over a club going nowhere under a deeply unpopular board in what's now the Championship and at risk of going out of business in the late 80s/early 90s to a genuine Premier League power player, one that should really have won a league title

 

What an amazing year that was. From Hansen with his famous quote, Cantona getting winners every week from Newcastle away. Then culminating in the FA Cup win against the white suits of Liverpool, with Cantona getting the winner. 

 

Great memories. 

[kaosmark2]

4 hours ago, charlierc said:

Mixed feelings imo. Of course there will be a respect from some given he took over a club going nowhere under a deeply unpopular board in what's now the Championship and at risk of going out of business in the late 80s/early 90s to a genuine Premier League power player, one that should really have won a league title, as well as reaching 2 FA Cup finals in the late 90s and reaching the Champions League again in the early 2000s under Bobby Robson, attracted a lot of big name players and modernised St James' Park twice over to its current capacity.

 

Where it gets more complex is that a lot of his finance was put in from loans and when the club was floated as a PLC in the mid-90s, it was used to pay them back, mostly through fans who brought the shares whose value plummeted. Picking a fight with fans over stadium seats, raising ticket/shirt prices, having his son slag off the fans in the infamous Fake Sheikh debacle, the club being in a bad way financially in 2007 when Hall cashed out and the like didn't help.

 

I think it looks better now than it did both for the fact the 90s were such an iconic time in Newcastle's history and the Mike Ashley era that followed was a slog.

 

I like this video from just before the Saudi takeover went through exploring the nuance.

Really good summary. It felt positive and he was the owner for the formative memories, but he was doing a lot of financial trickery that f**ked over fans, which is largely only overshadowed because of how bad things got and felt under Ashley.