Football 2024/25

[kaosmark2]

2 minutes ago, thetime said:

Bit of a weird comment from one of the more intelligent guys on here.

 

Even more so when your club had to pay compensation to victims, for allowing sexual child abuse happen to your youth players. 

 

Cough cough Gazza, wasn't he a wife beater? 

Oh, there's a lot of obnoxious history at Newcastle as well. And I'm not going to defend any of it or the Saudis. But I'm quite irked by how Man U fans are mostly pissed at Antony being crap, instead of yet another domestic abuser when there's still a lot of love for Best/Giggs/Ronaldo.

[thetime]

6 minutes ago, kaosmark2 said:

Oh, there's a lot of obnoxious history at Newcastle as well. And I'm not going to defend any of it or the Saudis. But I'm quite irked by how Man U fans are mostly pissed at Antony being crap, instead of yet another domestic abuser when there's still a lot of love for Best/Giggs/Ronaldo.

 

To be fair the vast majority didn't want anything to do with greenwood.

 

Fans don't really care about morals do they? As long as it brings success. 

 

Prime example Newcastle United fans. I'm sure the majority of Newcastle fans don't really give a shite about the Saudis human rights if it brings a pot or 2. Likewise if a player is accused of wife beating, but is still innocent without a court case. 

 

It's quite interesting though hakimi being charged with rape, still playing and no public outcry. Should a player be stopped from kicking a ball around on accusations? Or even if they've been found guilty? 

[charlierc]

On 10/10/2024 at 9:29 PM, thetime said:

Or perhaps the England job, Newcastle is a good stepping stone for Howe and I think it's worked well in that regard. 

As an update to this, the Telegraph this morning said that the FA has not spoken to Newcastle since the early summer, that Howe's release clause is on the high side for what they want and that in any case, Howe's happy where he is. So I think this move might not happen, at least this time around.

[thetime]

44 minutes ago, charlierc said:

As an update to this, the Telegraph this morning said that the FA has not spoken to Newcastle since the early summer, that Howe's release clause is on the high side for what they want and that in any case, Howe's happy where he is. So I think this move might not happen, at least this time around.

You Newcastle guys seem a tad worried, bigger fish might come in. 

 

For me with newcastles's new money, it would only be one of the biggest clubs or England that can tempt him. 

 

Clauses don't really matter do they? If he chooses to leave, Newcastle are not going to stop him. They would just get there compensation. 

 

I suppose it depends if he feels Newcastle are stagnating. 

[charlierc]

3 minutes ago, thetime said:

You Newcastle guys seem a tad worried, bigger fish might come in. 

 

For me with newcastles's new money, it would only be one of the biggest clubs or England that can tempt him. 

 

Clauses don't really matter do they? If he chooses to leave, Newcastle are not going to stop him. They would just get there compensation. 

 

I suppose it depends if he feels Newcastle are stagnating. 

Eh. Like players, managers come and go, and tbf the FA is probably more respectable a way to lose your boss than when we had Alan Pardew poached by Crystal Palace in 2015. No disrespect for Palace, but ya'know - managing England's quite the big deal. If someone pays the alleged 6 million release clause the Telegraph claim is in his contract and Howe wants to go, then Howe goes and we go for somebody else. Circle of life, innit. Just that at the moment, the rumour mill suggests he's content. That may not be the case forever, but not for now.

 

In saying that - and I actually wasn't aware of this until just now - there's reports in the German media that the FA is in talks with Thomas Tuchel, although other sources here are saying the FA is yet to even start interviewing candidates, so - pfft. f**k knows who ends up getting it.

 

I thought it would be Graham Potter, so the idea of Tuchel jumping ahead in the queue is a surprise. I'm aware there's rumours they want to pinch Guardiola when his Man City deal expires at the end of this season but I would find that a surprise, even if he wants to be at a World Cup one day and as a Catalan nationalist, it's hard to imagine the Spanish FA risking the backlash.

[thetime]

24 minutes ago, charlierc said:

 

 

In saying that - and I actually wasn't aware of this until just now - there's reports in the German media that the FA is in talks with Thomas Tuchel, although other sources here are saying the FA is yet to even start interviewing candidates, so - pfft. f**k knows who ends up getting it.

 

 

 

That sounds like Tuchel getting his name around through the media, I'm sure he will be back in club management soon. 

[kaosmark2]

8 hours ago, thetime said:

To be fair the vast majority didn't want anything to do with greenwood.

 

Fans don't really care about morals do they? As long as it brings success. 

 

Prime example Newcastle United fans. I'm sure the majority of Newcastle fans don't really give a shite about the Saudis human rights if it brings a pot or 2. Likewise if a player is accused of wife beating, but is still innocent without a court case. 

 

It's quite interesting though hakimi being charged with rape, still playing and no public outcry. Should a player be stopped from kicking a ball around on accusations? Or even if they've been found guilty? 

I think that's only because audio got released. If it were in the same way as everything else with credible evidence, I don't think there would have been any backlash. And the club themselves handled it atrociously.

 

In terms of what should happen with players... I think there's certainly an argument that national teams, and probably top-tier (trophy challenging, maybe even top division) clubs shouldn't be giving abusive men prominent profiles. The wave after me-too has just gone back to "oh, well that's in the past and it doesn't necessarily give them access".

[thetime]

37 minutes ago, kaosmark2 said:

I think that's only because audio got released. If it were in the same way as everything else with credible evidence, I don't think there would have been any backlash. And the club themselves handled it atrociously.

 

In terms of what should happen with players... I think there's certainly an argument that national teams, and probably top-tier (trophy challenging, maybe even top division) clubs shouldn't be giving abusive men prominent profiles. The wave after me-too has just gone back to "oh, well that's in the past and it doesn't necessarily give them access".

 

I find the greenwood case fascinating on so many levels, a football forum certainly isn't the right place to discuss that. 

 

I can't see your point on the level of football, it's either morally right or wrong I would of thought. A player can not  play for say city, but can play for West Brom. That's neither here or there. 

 

People commit crimes, some crimes against women. They certainly shouldn't be stopped working in there chosen field, if it isn't against the law. Let alone those who have not even been found guilty like Greenwood/giggs and other utd wingers. 

 

They kick a ball around. 

 

 

[charlierc]

13 hours ago, thetime said:

That sounds like Tuchel getting his name around through the media, I'm sure he will be back in club management soon. 

Certainly, given the way the British national press can be counted on to behave badly and turn molehills into giant mountains, I'd be surprised they'd turn to a German as manager given the sheer disdain the media greeted Sven and Capello with, and neither of those came from a nation that England has had a bit of a historic barney with.

 

Not that I'm sure on the direction. I got the impression from Carsley that he's not really that interested in the senior job and was fine with the under-21s.

Edited October 13, 2024 by charlierc

[pink_triangle]

13 hours ago, thetime said:

 

I find the greenwood case fascinating on so many levels, a football forum certainly isn't the right place to discuss that. 

 

I can't see your point on the level of football, it's either morally right or wrong I would of thought. A player can not  play for say city, but can play for West Brom. That's neither here or there. 

 

People commit crimes, some crimes against women. They certainly shouldn't be stopped working in there chosen field, if it isn't against the law. Let alone those who have not even been found guilty like Greenwood/giggs and other utd wingers. 

 

They kick a ball around. 

 

 

I think the issue is we already know that convictions are already low with the general population. When you add in millionaires bank accounts and expensive lawyers there will always be a large amount who have little trust in the legal system.

[thetime]

27 minutes ago, pink_triangle said:

I think the issue is we already know that convictions are already low with the general population. When you add in millionaires bank accounts and expensive lawyers there will always be a large amount who have little trust in the legal system.

 

Of course being a millionaire and accused of a crime, does not automatically mean guilt.

 

Which a fair amount of people imply. Which is down to jealousy of the accused lifestyle and wealth. My take is they don't really care about the victim, more interested in bringing people down. 

[pink_triangle]

4 hours ago, thetime said:

 

Of course being a millionaire and accused of a crime, does not automatically mean guilt.

 

Which a fair amount of people imply. Which is down to jealousy of the accused lifestyle and wealth. My take is they don't really care about the victim, more interested in bringing people down. 

No but at the same time I don’t think anyone believes that having money doesn’t reduce your chances of being convicted .

[charlierc]

Thomas Tuchel: FA holds talks with ex-Chelsea boss over England role - BBC Sport

 

Huh. This would be a curveball.

[steviewevie]

31 minutes ago, charlierc said:

Thomas Tuchel: FA holds talks with ex-Chelsea boss over England role - BBC Sport

 

Huh. This would be a curveball.

are we still allowed to sing that song when we play Germany?

[charlierc]

BBC, Guardian, Sky, Times, Mirror and the self-appointed transfer whisperer Fabrizio Romano are all saying Tuchel and the FA have an agreement in stone to be announced this week.

 

So much for my thoughts they'd go for Graham Potter then.

[charlierc]

Not that we're saying the Daily Mail are taking it well but Jeff Powell has written an article with the lead "England should be English down to the kit-man. We don't need Thomas Tuchel, we need a patriot who will put this country first"

 

This the same writer who, in 2000, wrote of Sven taking over, "We've sold our birthright down the fjord to a nation of seven million skiers and hammer throwers who spend half their lives in darkness."

 

So we see he's moderated his views in 24 years.

[Neil]

so : - Thomas Tuchel then!

[thetime]

12 hours ago, charlierc said:

Not that we're saying the Daily Mail are taking it well but Jeff Powell has written an article with the lead "England should be English down to the kit-man. We don't need Thomas Tuchel, we need a patriot who will put this country first"

 

This the same writer who, in 2000, wrote of Sven taking over, "We've sold our birthright down the fjord to a nation of seven million skiers and hammer throwers who spend half their lives in darkness."

 

So we see he's moderated his views in 24 years.

 

Whilst I agree it should be an English man, there's no one really suitable.

 

It's also quite amusing when the premier league is ful of overseas ownerships, managers, players, fans.

 

If they looked at that, there may be a more qualified English managers to take over. Again if you look at recent history like Low and Scaloni, does it need a bells and whistle manager. 

 

[charlierc]

9 hours ago, thetime said:

 

Whilst I agree it should be an English man, there's no one really suitable.

 

It's also quite amusing when the premier league is ful of overseas ownerships, managers, players, fans.

 

If they looked at that, there may be a more qualified English managers to take over. Again if you look at recent history like Low and Scaloni, does it need a bells and whistle manager. 

 

Southgate was not a bells and whistles manager and got close to 2 Euros tbf, so I can get that idea.

 

It is a curio imo to change tack, but it will be fascinating to see if this works out. And if a national team reflects the football culture of a country at large, surely importing a manager is on brand for it. Indeed I think there's a few Man United fans annoyed they didn't act quicker to bring Tuchel to Old Trafford, though that could just be allied to their dismay that ten Hag hasn't been told to go away yet.

 

Seems like a few nations might be in this boat, mind. Brazil thought they had a genuine shout at landing Carlo Ancelotti this time last year, to the point where they were genuinely ambushed by him signing a new Real Madrid contract, and also seem to want Guardiola to one day go their way.

[pink_triangle]

9 hours ago, thetime said:

 

Whilst I agree it should be an English man, there's no one really suitable.

 

 

It's also quite amusing when the premier league is ful of overseas ownerships, managers, players, fans.

 

If they looked at that, there may be a more qualified English managers to take over. Again if you look at recent history like Low and Scaloni, does it need a bells and whistle manager. 

 

It’s also hard to see an English manager getting the type of job that would make them “suitable “.

 

 

[charlierc]

2 minutes ago, pink_triangle said:

It’s also hard to see an English manager getting the type of job that would make them “suitable “.

I think that's the bigger issue as well. No English manager has won a Premier League-era top flight title, an FA Cup since 2008 (Redknapp with Portsmouth) or a Carabao/Capital One/Carling/EFL Cup since 2004 (McClaren with Middlesbrough). English managers have ofc got top 6 finishes or shown decent potential, but if none of the rich six are willing to take a chance on an English manager - and indeed the Graham Potter debacle at Chelsea may not have helped with this - it's not going to help.

[thetime]

4 hours ago, charlierc said:

I think that's the bigger issue as well. No English manager has won a Premier League-era top flight title, an FA Cup since 2008 (Redknapp with Portsmouth) or a Carabao/Capital One/Carling/EFL Cup since 2004 (McClaren with Middlesbrough). English managers have ofc got top 6 finishes or shown decent potential, but if none of the rich six are willing to take a chance on an English manager - and indeed the Graham Potter debacle at Chelsea may not have helped with this - it's not going to help.

 

The only viable one is Eddie Howe which we've alluded to recently. Which I also see a bit far fetched.

 

Premier league doesn't have much English about it, so why should those clubs appoint English mangers? Unfortunately English football has built a beast. 

[pink_triangle]

8 hours ago, thetime said:

 

The only viable one is Eddie Howe which we've alluded to recently. Which I also see a bit far fetched.

 

Premier league doesn't have much English about it, so why should those clubs appoint English mangers? Unfortunately English football has built a beast. 

It’s far fetched based on the perception from England fans what qualifications someone should need to be England manager. You look at the record of the Argentina manager and may question if those perceptions are correct.

[NorthernSoul52]

Honestly, think Potter's processes would have worked, but happy with Tuchel.

 

The big question is simply if he can adapt to the lack of micromanagement you'd have within international football. A strength Southgate seemed to have was the ability to liase successfully with clubs over players in the run-up to tournament time. It'll be a skill honed in St. George's.

 

Tuchel will need to find a way to make that work for him.

[charlierc]

4 hours ago, NorthernSoul52 said:

Honestly, think Potter's processes would have worked, but happy with Tuchel.

 

The big question is simply if he can adapt to the lack of micromanagement you'd have within international football. A strength Southgate seemed to have was the ability to liase successfully with clubs over players in the run-up to tournament time. It'll be a skill honed in St. George's.

 

Tuchel will need to find a way to make that work for him.

I've heard he has previous - apparently at Chelsea he came up with the master blueprint that turned things around and helped them win the Champions League while on the way to London to take his first training session, and those who covered Chelsea in 2020/21 say it was notably quick how they took on board his change in philosophy.