news & politics:discussion

[Guest]

Just now, Crazyfool01 said:

its reality not an excuse .... who are the some because im just not seeing it ? this thread I doubt will win the election 

Sorry it is an excuse and not a very good one.  

[steviewevie]

36 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

Labour have plenty of good policies that will greatly improve people’s lives and improve the country. They won’t be able to do everything they want to do because of time and also because the Tories have wrecked the economy which a lot of people seem to be ignoring. Look at the Tories (the actual government) cancelling green policies, some of the people moaning about Labour now said nothing back then. It’s reasons like this that I feel some people aren’t being completely honest about things.

I mean, I don't know...I think people did moan when govt delayed the clean energy thing to 2035, but no one expects Tories to be in government much longer, so now attention is turning to Labour, and their key pledge on this has changed. Maybe outcome is same and this is all just political, quite possibly is, but their messaging has definitely changed, and it is understandable that people think it is being deprioritised.

Edited February 5, 2024 by steviewevie

[steviewevie]

6 minutes ago, Neil said:

To assess someone's wealth whether dead or alive, you need to realise the value of their assets by getting a price for them. Essentially a forced fire sale.

Well when an inheritance I guess it is the value of the asset when inherited?

[lost]

7 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

e.g.

OLDWealthTaxCommission-Final-reportold.pdf (lse.ac.uk)

That doesn't answer Neils question. He doesn't even define what wealth is.

[Neil]

1 minute ago, steviewevie said:

Well when an inheritance I guess it is the value of the asset when inherited?

you can only know the value by selling it!

[lost]

2 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

Well when an inheritance I guess it is the value of the asset when inherited?

Its more recessions isn't it when assets can correct 30% - 40%. if you lose your job as well and are having to sell your house to pay the tax bill right at the bottom only for it to return to its previous value by the time your back on your feet your going to pissed.

[Neil]

3 minutes ago, lost said:

That doesn't answer Neils question. He doesn't even define what wealth is.

it does - but i can't copy it, in the section 

Quote

What is a wealth tax?

 

[lost]

4 minutes ago, Neil said:

it does - but i can't copy it, in the section 

 

The "most" is woolly for me. Simply because money will flow into the assets that are not taxed, Crypto, antiques, fine wine. The government can't have a team of experts on everything to constantly value it.

Edited February 5, 2024 by lost

[Neil]

41 minutes ago, Skip997 said:

increase council tax on second homes,

easy to say much harder to do hubby would put 2nd home in wife's name and avoid the tax:-  to work people would have to offer themselves up for the tax, when people try to avoid tax.

[Crazyfool01]

ok @Ozanne who on this thread do you think votes Tory ? just easier to say rather than a generic some people comment 

[steviewevie]

4 minutes ago, Neil said:

you can only know the value by selling it!

no, you can get it valued at current market rate? they do that now?

I get that it isn't simple, but it is not impossible...

[Neil]

2 minutes ago, lost said:

The "most" is woolly for me. Simply because money will flow into the assets that are not taxed.

t does also sat "or all"

 

also asks whether an annual tax or a one-off. Another important part of the idea

[steviewevie]

 

[lost]

1 minute ago, Neil said:

t does also sat "or all"

Its impossible to tax all as I said you can't value everything all the time and even if you could there are crypto currencies out there with encrypted block chains meaning nobodies got a clue how much you've got.

Edited February 5, 2024 by lost

[Neil]

2 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

no, you can get it valued at current market rate? they do that now?

I get that it isn't simple, but it is not impossible...

current market rate is achieved by selling it!! if  the asset can't get that price then its not wealth of the value you want to tax it at.

if its not decided by selling it a man has to come round to value everything every person has, if they over-value that person gets forced to pay tax which isn't due from  them!!!

a wealth tax is hugely impractical. just about impossible to operate.

[Neil]

3 minutes ago, lost said:

Its impossible to tax all as I said you can't value everything all the time and even if you could there are crypto currencies out there with encrypted block chains meaning nobodies got a clue how much you've got.

i can see the difficulties in operating a wealth tax. it would work best with an honest society and self disclosure [self disclosure doesn't work for taxes]).

[steviewevie]

2 minutes ago, Neil said:

current market rate is achieved by selling it!! if  the asset can't get that price then its not wealth of the value you want to tax it at.

if its not decided by selling it a man has to come round to value everything every person has, if they over-value that person gets forced to pay tax which isn't due from  them!!!

a wealth tax is hugely impractical. just about impossible to operate.

you can get a property valued without selling it, right?

[lost]

You'd also get a "selling season" in the stock market when the big company bods had to sell off aload of stock to pay their tax bill. In turn then you'd get hedge funds who knew what time of year a companies stock was about to fall and act accordingly just beforehand putting on massive shorts.

[Neil]

1 minute ago, steviewevie said:

you can get a property valued without selling it, right?

a valuation is not its value. if its over-valued wrongly then that's not wealth that tax is due on! 

 

its value is decided by what someone is willing to pay for it!(

people complain about wrong council tax valuations, the old rating system was scrapped cos they couldn't keep up with valuations (so lots of peeps felt they were paying the wrong amount).

[steviewevie]

Just now, Neil said:

a valuation is not its value. if its over-valued wrongly then that's not wealth that tax is due on! 

 

its value is decided by what someone is willing to pay for it!(

people complain about wrong council tax valuations, the old rating system was scrapped cos they couldn't keep up with valuations (so lots of peeps felt they were paying the wrong amount).

well...however it is valued...

Anyway, not sure how it work if you keep the property...but if someone has made a mint after a selling a home they didn't even buy, that should be taxed. That wealth increase should be distributed, not just go to the lucky people who get to inherit it. 

[Guest]

24 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

I mean, I don't know...I think people did moan when govt delayed the clean energy thing to 2035, but no one expects Tories to be in government much longer, so now attention is turning to Labour, and their key pledge on this has changed. Maybe outcome is same and this is all just political, quite possibly is, but their messaging has definitely changed, and it is understandable that people think it is being deprioritised.

I just don’t think that’s the case, in fact last week when the bankers bonus stuff came up. I went back to Oct 2023 to see how many people said something when the cap was removed, I posted the story and only you commented on it. Yet last week some people here were up in arms about it when Labour said they weren’t going to reverse it just not angry when the cap was removed. It was the same with the green policies and highlights the problem Labour faces, they get held to higher standards than other parties. 
 

The messaging has only changed from Labour now into how much can be spent on the policy at the start of their term everything else remains the same and that’s because the Tories trashed the economy. 

[Neil]

1 minute ago, steviewevie said:

.but if someone has made a mint after a selling a home

thats a different thing of taxing capital gains on house profits(its not a capital gain till sold so tax  would have to be due at the point of sale not by valuation)

[steviewevie]

8 minutes ago, Neil said:

thats a different thing of taxing capital gains on house profits(its not a capital gain till sold so tax  would have to be due at the point of sale not by valuation)

ok..well...yes....so if keep property and value goes up you pay some tax on that...but if you inherit property and other assets, and those total assets are worth something big, tax the f**k out of it, tax it hard, tax it real good.

[steviewevie]

 

[Crazyfool01]

5 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

 

pair of horrible c**ts betting on the outcomes of migrants lives , how low have they sunk