General Election 2015

[eFestivals]

I did Google but I didn't readily find that which are you are alleging. Alleging as "proven" at that.

You made the allegations... but appear unable to justify them.

Bitter Together much?

yes, it's really difficult to put "leveson salmond murdoch" into google, I can understand why someone as intelligent as you is having such trouble.

[viberunner]

are you on about the 20 year old SNP MP? The one who's very short on life experience and has not had a proper job and is now a professional politician, having (yet to complete) a politics degree?

How long till you're advocating England to have a nationalist party running it, comfy? That nasty English (non-existant) nationalism that caused the SNP's rise, that the SNP's rise is going to cause?

Mhairi Black black appears to be more real and self-aware than most men in their 40s.

Also, I don't think anyone would have a problem with an English nationalist party that wasn't a bunch of racist idiots. There's UKIP, which pretends to be UK wide but is really England (and Wales). There's the BNP, again a "British Party of England". There's the EDF (which is chock full of BNP members).

If the English could organise a non-racist national party that wouldn't be a bad thing.

[eFestivals]

for the thicko, here's a detailed version from a lovely Scottish newspaper.

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/home-news/leveson-queries-salmonds-stance-over-murdochs-bskyb-deal.1354210225

It makes exceedingly clear that Salmond was trying to cut a deal and was offering to break the law as his side of the deal.

[russycarps]

I realised your original post was tongue in cheek mate. Wasn`t meaning to get into a bun fight and I was also being tongue in cheek suggesting that you would be wound up by them clapping etc

Would like to point out that she has in fact had a previous job. She worked in a " chippie ". Not surprised that this has not been reported down your way. I`ll stick with don`t believe the hype

you cannot be seriously championing this girl? It's utterly laughable that you people voted for her to represent you. Farcical.

What on earth does a girl of 20 know about the real world?

[viberunner]

yes, it's really difficult to put "leveson salmond murdoch" into google, I can understand why someone as intelligent as you is having such trouble.

From the first link, the Guardian

Judge says Scottish first minister was willing to break ministerial code, but clears him of specific wrongdoing.

Lord Justice Leveson has criticised Alex Salmond for being willing to breach the Scottish ministerial code by lobbying on behalf of Rupert Murdoch, while clearing the first minister of any specific wrongdoing.

"Mr Salmond's duty to promote the Scottish economy and Scottish jobs cannot sensibly be understood as requiring irrelevant submissions to be made to a quasi-judicial decision maker."

The judge said he had "absolutely no doubt" Salmond was motivated by his desire to protect Scottish jobs with Sky. That was entirely laudable, he said.

But Leveson cautioned: "How far that should be taken, however, is another matter. He appreciated that employment whether in Scotland or elsewhere was not a relevant consideration for the minister and, in fact, he never contacted either Dr Cable or Mr Hunt to argue the contrary.

"Judged by what he did, as opposed to what he said he was prepared to do, therefore, he cannot be criticised."

That's your big white hope? That he was SHOCK SHOCK HORROR - HORROR SHOCK SHOCK HORROR willing to lobby for Scottish jobs, but didn't?

[viberunner]

for the thicko, here's a detailed version from a lovely Scottish newspaper.

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/home-news/leveson-queries-salmonds-stance-over-murdochs-bskyb-deal.1354210225

It makes exceedingly clear that Salmond was trying to cut a deal and was offering to break the law as his side of the deal.

Having read 4 Herald articles in the last month it has put me beyond a paywall. So I'll use The Guardian for now.

The Guardian makes it clear that (1) he didn't and (2) it was for Scottish jobs not personal or party gain.

Edited May 22, 2015 by viberunner

[eFestivals]

Also, I don't think anyone would have a problem with an English nationalist party that wasn't a bunch of racist idiots.

yeah of course ... which is why supposed English nationalism has caused you to think Scottish nationalism is Scotlaned's answer, and from where you now advocate English nationalism as the answer to that.

Confused, much? PMSL.

There's UKIP, which pretends to be UK wide but is really England (and Wales).

I see the Scottish population only counts as Scottish if they vote SNP

And you say that UKIP are the racists? PMSL:.

(they are, but you're more than matching them!)

There's the BNP, again a "British Party of England".

with less than 2,000 votes in May 2015.

And of course there's no racists in the SNP, you can never read their words of hatred of the England alongside their words of how much they love the little fishes.

There's the EDF (which is chock full of BNP members).

and there's the SDF, full of racist Scottish people.

If the English could organise a non-racist national party that wouldn't be a bad thing.

i see you're having difficulties with the unbreakable links between nationalism and racism.

[eFestivals]

Having read 4 Herald articles in the last month it has put me beyond a paywall. So I'll use The Guardian for now.

The Guardian makes it clear that (1) he didn't and (2) it was for Scottish jobs not personal or party gain.

pick this detailed version apart, smart lad.

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Leveson queries Salmond's stance over Murdoch's BSkyB deal

Thursday 29 November 2012

First Minister Alex Salmond would have knowingly led UK ministers to break the law if it advanced Scottish interests, according to Lord Justice Leveson's report into press standards.

Mr Salmond displayed a "striking" readiness to lobby UK Business Secretary Vince Cable and former culture secretary Jeremy Hunt on behalf of Rupert Murdoch's NewsCorp during their consideration of the legality of its proposed acquisition of BSkyB, according to the Inquiry Report released today.

Lord Justice Leveson found no evidence of a deal to trade NewsCorp newspaper support for the SNP in exchange for Scottish Government support for the BSkyB bid, but he noted that both were discussed during the same conversation.

Ultimately, Mr Salmond did not contact the UK ministers, despite indicating his willingness to do so, and therefore "cannot be criticised" because he must be "judged by what he did, as opposed to what he said he was prepared to do".

But Lord Justice Leveson found that Mr Salmond was aware the ministers had a quasi-judicial role and that this knowledge "would not have stopped him from trying to advance considerations which would have led the decision-maker into error had they been heeded".

"Plurality was the only consideration which could legitimately have been taken into account by the Secretary of State," said Lord Justice Leveson.

"Acceding to Mr Salmond's argument would have rendered the decision unlawful."

During the Inquiry, Mr Salmond argued that the Scottish Ministerial Code, which restricts ministers from promoting an individual company's products or services, does not prevent them from "fulfilling their proper function of encouraging investment in economic activity".

But Lord Justice Leveson found this argument unconvincing. "Mr Salmond adamantly believed that he was entitled to make his case and that responsibility for ensuring that the decision was properly taken rested entirely with the Secretary of State," he said.

"Mr Salmond is right that legal responsibility for taking the decision lawfully rested with the Secretary of State.

"But it does not follow that he was entirely at liberty to seek to persuade the Secretary of State into error (particularly, if successful, it could potentially have had the effect of giving rise to grounds for challenge).

"Neither do I understand how a section of the Scottish Ministerial Code dealing with public sector procurement assists.

"Mr Salmond's duty to promote the Scottish economy and Scottish jobs cannot sensibly be understood as requiring irrelevant submissions to be made to a quasi-judicial decision-maker.

"The evidence does not go so far as to show either an express or an implied deal between Mr Salmond and James Murdoch trading newspaper support for assistance with the bid.

"What it did reveal was the way in which Mr Salmond was expressly seeking the support of The Sun in the same conversation as he was repeating an offer to assist with the bid."

He concluded: "I have absolutely no doubt that Mr Salmond was motivated by an anxiety to help Scottish employment and to benefit Scotland generally: that is entirely laudable and exactly what is the expectation and proper function of the First Minister.

"How far that should be taken, however, is another matter.

"He appreciated that employment, whether in Scotland or elsewhere, was not a relevant consideration for the minister and, in fact, he never contacted either Dr Cable or Mr Hunt to argue the contrary.

"Judged by what he did, as opposed to what he said he was prepared to do, therefore, he cannot be criticised."

Commenting on today's report, Mr Salmond's spokesman said: "Today's report is a complete vindication of the First Minister's position in terms of the case he was prepared to put to promote Scottish jobs and the wider Scottish economic interest.

"As Lord (Justice) Leveson himself says, Mr Salmond 'cannot be criticised' in respect of the BSkyB takeover issue and was 'motivated by an anxiety to help Scottish employment and to benefit Scotland generally' which was 'entirely laudable and exactly what is the expectation and proper function of the First Minister'.

"This report drives a coach and horses through the claims of opposition politicians in the Scottish Parliament, whose own parties' dealings with News Corporation and other major media organisations have been far greater than those of the First Minister."

However, Scottish Labour parliamentary business manager Paul Martin said the report "gives a fascinating insight into the murky way Alex Salmond goes about his business".

"The only thing that stopped that wrongdoing was that the UK Government made a decision before Salmond got round to phoning them," he said.

Scottish Liberal Democrat leader Willie Rennie said: "Lord Leveson has seen right through Alex Salmond. He is justly concerned about the murky dealings between Alex Salmond and the Murdochs.

"He found that Alex Salmond was prepared to entice a UK minister to act unlawfully on the BSkyB bid at the same time as he was seeking political support from Mr Murdoch's newspapers.

"Lord Leveson did not believe Mr Salmond's claims that the Ministerial Code required the First Minister to lobby those UK ministers on the bid.

"Although Lord Leveson found no hard evidence of a deal with the Murdochs, he is clearly concerned about the cosy relationship."

Meanwhile, Mr Salmond said he will now consider how Lord Justice Leveson's proposal of an independent print regulator backed by legislation can be adapted to Scottish circumstances.

He has proposed an "independent implementation group" to consider the report's findings. He said: "The Scottish Government is already more transparent than the UK Government when it comes to publishing meetings with newspaper editors, proprietors and senior executives, but we will certainly consider moving to quarterly publication of such meetings and correspondence.

"The Scottish Ministerial Code already has a key clause making clear the overarching onus on Scottish ministers to take the promotion of Scottish jobs, investment and economic activity into account, as the Leveson report acknowledges.

"This clause was placed in the code in June 2008 to reflect the fact the Scottish Government had adopted sustainable economic growth as its top priority. We will now give consideration to placing that clause at the very start of the Ministerial Code to emphasise the importance we place on the issue."

Scottish Labour leader Johann Lamont said Lord Justice Leveso's recommendations look "sensible" as independent regulation backed up by law offers "an easier way for ordinary people to get justice without the expense of the courts".

She added: "I am not convinced that there is a need for a separate press regulation system in Scotland. But after reading Lord Leveson's comments in his report, I am convinced that Alex Salmond is not the man to lead any form of press regulation."

Law Society Scotland president Austin Lafferty said: "Today's recommendations of establishing a new independent body will help re-build public confidence.

"It's vital that the new body is free of government and industry influence, and that the media voluntarily supports its objectives.

"It will be interesting to see the ripple effect on Scottish media and how this develops in Scotland with the First Minister's plans for a cross-party inquiry group and a debate by MSPs next week."

PS ... isn't it odd how that Scottish press regulator never got to be formed, and that the SNP don't wish to see Leveson's recommendations implemented?

Edited May 22, 2015 by eFestivals

[viberunner]

you cannot be seriously championing this girl? It's utterly laughable that you people voted for her to represent you. Farcical.

What on earth does a girl of 20 know about the real world?

She knows enough about herself that age 20 is is gay and open about it, as she said "I'm not out as I've never been in". A lot of gay people are still struggling with admitting that (be it publicly or to themselves) well into their 30s and 40s.

She also comes from a "normal" background rather than a high affluent privileged background. So there's that.

[eFestivals]

From the first link, the Guardian

That's your big white hope? That he was SHOCK SHOCK HORROR - HORROR SHOCK SHOCK HORROR willing to lobby for Scottish jobs, but didn't?

That's Salmond's bullshit version.

Leveson pointed to the law and pointed out that Salmond had offered to break it, and used false justification as his defence for what he planned to do.

And, funnily enough, genuine offers to lobby for Scottish jobs don't suggest that a newspaper promotes a political party in return for illegal lobbying.

But hey, in the land of non-facts you can make anything up you like, and you do.

[viberunner]

pick this detailed version apart, smart lad.

Okay... ignoring The Guardian's "bullshit" version. From the very text you gave.

He concluded: "I have absolutely no doubt that Mr Salmond was motivated by an anxiety to help Scottish employment and to benefit Scotland generally: that is entirely laudable and exactly what is the expectation and proper function of the First Minister.

"How far that should be taken, however, is another matter.

"He appreciated that employment, whether in Scotland or elsewhere, was not a relevant consideration for the minister and, in fact, he never contacted either Dr Cable or Mr Hunt to argue the contrary.

"Judged by what he did, as opposed to what he said he was prepared to do, therefore, he cannot be criticised."

He was willing to lobby for Scottish jobs, something Leveson calls laudable and right, but shouldn't have been in that circumstance. And did not, so Leveson says he can't be criticised.

Hardly the "proven corruption" you were blethering on about on about.

Edited May 22, 2015 by viberunner

[eFestivals]

She also comes from a "normal" background rather than a high affluent privileged background. So there's that.

so do most of the MPs in Parliament with politics degrees, but they get labelled as being outside of the real world ... as long as they're not in the SNP.

[feral chile]

are you on about the 20 year old SNP MP?

The one who's very short on life experience and has not had a proper job and is now a professional politician, having (yet to complete) a politics degree?

The very things which make Labour so unacceptable to vote for, because they've not got the life experiences of real people?

It's yet another example of snippers now lauding the things they used to condemn.

How long till you're advocating England to have a nationalist party running it, comfy? That nasty English (non-existant) nationalism that caused the SNP's rise, that the SNP's rise is going to cause?

Careful. You seem to be advocating a specialist system of career politicians. Which is what society has been trying to move away from, since it's historically been the ruling classes who thought they had the expertise to rule us.

I was reminded of a conversation I had with my family this morning. As I've already mentioned, I'm a big George Orwell fan, and he won my heart by championing the working classes. At a time when the workers were looked down on, and social reform was resisted because 'they'd nly keep coal in their bath' 'what's the point of giving them more money, they don't know how to budget' etc. etc., Orwell tried to be brutally honest about class bias, noting the well meaning condescension of many socialists, and tried so hard to see things from a working class perspective.

Taken from a book written in the first half of the last century:

http://www.george-orwell.org/The_Road_to_Wigan_Pier/7.html

The notion that the working class have been absurdly pampered, hopelessly demoralized by doles,

old age pensions, free education, etc., is still widely held; it has merely

been a little shaken, perhaps, by the recent recognition that unemployment

does exist. For quantities of middle-class people, probably for a large

majority of those over fifty, the typical working man still rides to the

Labour Exchange on a motor-bike and keeps coal in his bath-tub: 'And, if

you'll believe it, my dear, they actually get married on. the dole!'

Has anything really changed? We need a George Orwell now I think.

you cannot be seriously championing this girl? It's utterly laughable that you people voted for her to represent you. Farcical.

What on earth does a girl of 20 know about the real world?

What do multimillionaires know about the real world?

[eFestivals]

He was willing to lobby for Scottish jobs...

and suggested that Murdoch pay him off for doing so.

I see you picked out the bits you fancied, and not the bits that damn Salmond. Why is that?

Let's just pretend that Salmond wasn't corrupt, and Scotland can happy start to plant the banana trees.

[gary1979666]

There's the EDF (which is chock full of BNP members).

Not meaning to be picky, but do you mean the EDL? But love do the typo of Electrite de France in it's place.

[eFestivals]

Careful. You seem to be advocating a specialist system of career politicians.

Not at all.

I'm simply pointing out that Mhari Black is everything that snippers like to condemn - when it's not snippers who are doing it.

It's only of an ever-growing list of things that they used to condemn and now voice their support for, showing them as nothing different to all other parties.

Edited May 22, 2015 by eFestivals

[viberunner]

yeah of course ... which is why supposed English nationalism has caused you to think Scottish nationalism is Scotlaned's answer, and from where you now advocate English nationalism as the answer to that.

Confused, much? PMSL.

I think England needs self-determination. It needs to get out of the colonial mindset that has been a feature of Westminster politics since, well, Cromwell.

I see the Scottish population only counts as Scottish if they vote SNP

You might see that but I haven't argued it.

And you say that UKIP are the racists? PMSL:. (they are, but you're more than matching them!)

UKIP are most definitely full of racial hatreds, and I most certainly am not among them. (I take the piss out of the English, but I feel I have a right to do that being English).

And of course there's no racists in the SNP, you can never read their words of hatred of the England alongside their words of how much they love the little fishes.

If you can quote racial hatreds from the SNP feel free to do so.

and there's the SDF,full of racist Scottish people.

SDF are Scottish Drugs Forum. SDL have their marches vetoed (unlike England) but yes there are ugly people in Scotland, not least the Orangemen / Britain First nationalist racists, along with some degree of Sinn Fein / IRA support.

You want to see the size of an SDL rally?

i see you're having difficulties with the unbreakable links between nationalism and racism.

The ANC were racist for wanting self-determination?

Tibet is racist for wanting self-determination?

The Palestinians are racist for wanting self-determination?

[viberunner]

I see you picked out the bits you fancied, and not the bits that damn Salmond. Why is that?

I printed the conclusion in full.

[eFestivals]

What do multimillionaires know about the real world?

who knows, but snippers like to elect them as SNP members of parliament no different to the supporters of other parties.

[russycarps]

She knows enough about herself that age 20 is is gay and open about it, as she said "I'm not out as I've never been in". A lot of gay people are still struggling with admitting that (be it publicly or to themselves) well into their 30s and 40s.

She also comes from a "normal" background rather than a high affluent privileged background. So there's that.

I'm not sure I see the relevance of her sexuality?

I'm sure she's a lovely girl who means well but it is ludicrous she is a MP. This is not a dig at the snp, I'd say the same of any party. We mock career politicians, but this is something else altogether. Laughable.

But it does go to prove that scots would have voted for anybody or anything in this election such was their blind fervour. You could have stuck a yellow rosette on a pig and the drones would have voted for it.

[viberunner]

Not meaning to be picky, but do you mean the EDL? But love do the typo of Electrite de France in it's place.

A typo but a different one.

No, I didn't mention the EDL as they are not primarily an electoral-facing organisation (though they have made one or two attempts here and there).

I meant ED, English Democrats.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_Democrats

[eFestivals]

The ANC were racist for wanting self-determination?

Tibet is racist for wanting self-determination?

The Palestinians are racist for wanting self-determination?

care to show me the oppressive regime in Scotland? If Scotland needs liberating, it can only be from the SNP as they're in charge.

Meanwhile, what part of Scotland's self-determination did you miss? Did you go on holiday last September?

When you have to make these laughable comparisons, even you know you're talking bollocks.

(either that, or your one brain cell has taken today off, take your pick).

Edited May 22, 2015 by eFestivals

[eFestivals]

I printed the conclusion in full.

no you didn't.

You missed out all the bits which point out Salmond's corruption.

[russycarps]

The ANC were racist for wanting self-determination?

Tibet is racist for wanting self-determination?

The Palestinians are racist for wanting self-determination?

behave, comparing scotland to places that experience genuine oppression. What a shameful post.

[viberunner]

so do most of the MPs in Parliament with politics degrees, but they get labelled as being outside of the real world ... as long as they're not in the SNP.

UK society

7% privately educated

<1% attended Oxbridge

Parliament

25% privately educated

31% attended Oxbridge

The Parliamentary figures would have been a bit higher but the 56 SNP members lowed the averages!!