Football 2011-2012

[pink_triangle]

English clubs have won 2 Champions Leagues in the last 12 years. This is an era where they have collectively spent a ridiculous amount of money and all 4 teams were regularly getting to the last 16.

[The Nal]

If they were as great as you like to believe they'd have won more than they did.

(yes, I know there's good reasons why they didn't, but that doesn't change good to great).

Edited March 9, 2012 by The Nal

[eFestivals]

This isn't the Munich team. This is the team 10 years later I'm talking about.

yeah I know - but it was a team that was effected by Munich, and would probably have been better than it was if Munich hadn't happened.

[pink_triangle]

Liverpool weren't as lucky, more Milan being complacent and a couple of performances for the ages from Carra and Gerrard. The type of performances you can't buy

[The Nal]

yeah I know - but it was a team that was effected by Munich, and would probably have been better than it was if Munich hadn't happened.

[strummer77]

It's romantic to give the glory to the scousers however in my opinion hamman was just as influential. He also took no responsibility for the terrible first half as he wasn't on the pitch, he was in my opinion the only player who played well throughout the game and also scored under the pressure of the shootout. I still maintain that if gerrard had put in hamman performance in Istanbul and.vice versa. The headlines the next day wouldn't have been hamman inspires Liverpool in amazing comeback, they would have been supersub gerrard inspires great escape. In my opinion the hamman story just doesn't sell as many newspapers.

[The Nal]

Hamman's job was quiet and effective though, as he always was. You're never going to get the headlines by coming on and quietly stifling Kaka as much as scoring and then winning a penalty.

[strummer77]

Very important though. It was the following year when Rafa took of Mascherano (I think?) who was doing a good job of marking Kaka and then suddenyl he was free to turn and slot passes into Inzaghi.

Edited March 9, 2012 by strummer77

[eFestivals]

Oh and here's a video for those doubting Messi could do it in a more physical league. The boy can hold his own.

He loves the ball more than he loves winning, and because he loves the ball he always wins anyway.

Love that video, thanks - poetry in motion.

[The Nal]

Oh and here's a video for those doubting Messi could do it in a more physical league. The boy can hold his own.

[strummer77]

Reminds me a lot of this youngster.

Honestly check it out. Not the best quality in parts but as Neil says, the love of the ball and winning........

Edited March 9, 2012 by strummer77

[eFestivals]

The best player of his generation. Messi's the best of ours. Comparisons are futile.

Oh I dunno.

However good Maradona or anyone else was, no team has had such close ball control with just one touch as the current Barca team has. It puts them streets ahead of the next nearest.

Meanwhile, I'm sure even managers like Wenger beat those sorts of habits out of players, telling them to not risk the ball by letting the opposition get that close to them, by not trying to play passes thru gaps that tight, and if in doubt to hoof it.

And that's before touching on the fact that there seems to be no player in England who can receive the ball and move it on in one touch every time (and for most at any time ).

[thetime]

Question would be would messi thrive in lesser sides than barca? Its not like hes done it for argentina generally.

Just using this argument as maradonna was in a average argentina side that won the world cup becuase of him, best player on the planet and most influential. Pele in the 1970 world cup had a bunch of great players to help and compliment him(only going by reports), again when maradonna went to napoli turned them into champions of italy in a average team. Would messi be able to do this? I suppose we will never know as I cant see him leaving barca.

so for me maradonna is the best player to grace the earth, although bryan robson outplayed him in 1983(utd v barca!!!)

Edited March 9, 2012 by thetime

[Ed209]

He can probably still do a decent job at Wrexham, he's only 34. Just an old 34 because he basically got crippled...........

[eFestivals]

Question would be would messi thrive in lesser sides than barca? Its not like hes done it for argentina generally.

Just using this argument as maradonna was in a average argentina side that won the world cup becuase of him, best player on the planet and most influential. Pele in the 1970 world cup had a bunch of great players to help and compliment him(only going by reports), again when maradonna went to napoli turned them into champions of italy in a average team. Would messi be able to do this? I suppose we will never know as I cant see him leaving barca.

so for me maradonna is the best player to grace the earth, although bryan robson outplayed him in 1983(utd v barca!!!)

There's different types of players, players who need their team to perform for them to perform - which is probably the case with Messi - and then there's the players like Maradonna who can do it all on his own, or a Gerrard who can drag his team along with him.

I say "probably" with Messi because he's still pretty much a kid in world football terms - he's not 25 until later this year. He's got at least another two world cups in him so there's plenty of time for him to perhaps show he doesn't always need other fantastic players around him for him to perform at his best.

I'd still say that on the pure skill front that Messi has quite a big lead over Maradonna.

so for me maradonna is the best player to grace the earth, although bryan robson outplayed him in 1983(utd v barca!!!)

I can't say I remember the game, but I'd put money on that "outplayed him" to really mean "kicked the shit out of him".

[The Nal]

Wonderful.

The best player of his generation. Messi's the best of ours. Comparisons are futile.

Edited March 9, 2012 by The Nal

[thetime]

old trafford, a proper footie stadium in them days...looks like it was jumping.

Edited March 9, 2012 by thetime

[strummer77]

He's an old 34 .... because he's 37 next month

[Ed209]

Well blame the Mail (I think), I read it on their site

[The Nal]

The Fail. Ha!

[eFestivals]

Hmmm. Dunno about that. Theres hours and hours of Maradona on youtube Ive watched and )Im old enough to remember him play albeit not at his peak), some of it not great quality and the guy was light years ahead of anyone.

what you said that back against was me commenting on the whole Barca team, not just Messi. This Barca team have waaaay more as a team in the pure skill dept than any other team I've seen.

Have to remember too that Maradona's greatness not only came from winning the World Cup but also turning Napoli into the team they were. They won Serie A twice (the only times they've ever won it), finished 2nd twice and won the UEFA Cup (the only time they've ever won it). Just insane. Messi plays in a team with 3-4 of the best players in the world.

I wouldn't have Messi anywhere near Maradona on skill alone. Maradona and Ronaldinho are unequalled in the history of the game for me.

as I've said in an earlier post, Maradonna can do it all on his own - which Messi hasn't (yet) shown himself capable of.

To do that you need muscle, guile, cunning, and cheating along with the pure skill - but the skill becomes of less importance and less necessary because of those other things. Perhaps Mardonna had the same pure skill as Messi has, but it wasn't displayed as regularly IMO.

Messi pretty much relies on his skill alone, while also utilising with the high skills of the players he plays with. He can make a tight pass and a run off that pass because he knows the player he's passed to is good enough to get the ball back to him.

Maradona was also a heavy cocaine user going all the way back to his Barca days. Imagine how good he could have been!?

yeah, good point.

You're 100% right though about Messi's age. Scary isnt it?

Yup. He doesn't look like he's going to be getting any worse anytime soon.

[strummer77]

Well that'll teach you for reading the Mail

Edited March 9, 2012 by strummer77

[Ed209]

If Messi can take that Argentina side to winning the world cup then he's certainly up there, but for me, you have to prove it on the international stage as well as the club, just like Pele, Maradonna and Zidane did.

What is frightening is that Messi is only 7 goals from the *all time* Barcelona scoring record (he's got 228 in 311 apps), and he's only 24!

[strummer77]

If Messi can take that Argentina side to winning the world cup then he's certainly up there, but for me, you have to prove it on the international stage as well as the club, just like Pele, Maradonna and Zidane did.

What is frightening is that Messi is only 7 goals from the *all time* Barcelona scoring record (he's got 228 in 311 apps), and he's only 24!

[eFestivals]

Any predictions for this weekends set of games then? Gonna go:

Bolton 2-0 QPR

Villa 1-2 Fulham

Chelsea 3-1 Stoke

Sunderland 1-1 Liverpool

Wolves 0-2 Blackburn

Everton 1-0 Spurs

Man United 3-0 West Brom

Swansea 1-2 City

Norwich 2-2 Wigan

Arsenal 0-1 Newcastle

Liverpool 2-1 Everton

Liverpool & Everton are playing twice?

Edited March 9, 2012 by eFestivals