Football 2011-2012

[ralph250]

http://news.bbc.co.u...ll/15336398.stm

Fuck that shit.

[ralph250]

Agree on can only play whats in front of you, and to be fair plenty of the prem games can be tough with the dominant teams having to try and breakdown an opponent. No guarantees that United won't struggle against some of those teams, but just think tough tests to come for City still.

I'd rather be in our position than theirs so far in the season, in spite of them currently leading, and not going to be too perturbed if they open the 5 point gap. As long as stay within touching distance going into the last 10 games, then should have a chance.

Need to get a result tomorrow first. Will be interesting what team Fergie plays given those rested at the weekend. We need the 3 pts really following the Basle game.

[kaosmark2]

Agreed. Can see the fear that foreign ownership could push for it, considering fair few Americans, and the American sports are closed shop, but the majority of the American ownership is likes of United, Liverpool, Arsenal etc that are probably pretty unconcerned about the threat of relegation. Only really Lerner and Short that have come from a nation with a closed system and both are pretty much benefactors at the moment just on a smaller scale. Presumably either doing it for fun, or hoping the prem continues to expand in terms of global audience, and thus media rights will drive up their revenues.

I'm not sure if its overly a foreign thing either. I'm sure if it was put to vote then plenty of the English chairman would say "yeah alright, suits us".

Don't agree with it though, and think would only really work if there was the European breakaway league, but I don't see that coming in for a while yet.

As an aside,will be interesting whether many more buy-outs occur either in sense of Chelsea/City style. I doubt it. Pretty saturated now with an arguably top 6, for someone else to buy into it if looking for high revenues (so requiring CL). Competition means a lot of risk.

[kaosmark2]

Agree on can only play whats in front of you, and to be fair plenty of the prem games can be tough with the dominant teams having to try and breakdown an opponent. No guarantees that United won't struggle against some of those teams, but just think tough tests to come for City still.

I'd rather be in our position than theirs so far in the season, in spite of them currently leading, and not going to be too perturbed if they open the 5 point gap. As long as stay within touching distance going into the last 10 games, then should have a chance.

Need to get a result tomorrow first. Will be interesting what team Fergie plays given those rested at the weekend. We need the 3 pts really following the Basle game.

[The Nal]

but if you asked Fergie if he'd take 20 points from a possible 24 so far, having played Chelsea, Arsenal, Tottenham and Norwich at home, Liverpool, Stoke, West Brom, and Bolton away, scoring 25 and conceding 6, he would've ripped your arm off. Especially, when integrating a new keeper, having Vidic only play 56 minutes so far in the league, Rio only playing 50%.

[strummer77]

Yep. Rafa got a lot of criticism for that didn't he? Even though you conceded a relatively small amount of goals playing that way?

[The Nal]

How stupid is this “end relegation and promotion” idea?

Has the whole world gone CRAZY?!!

AM I THE ONLY ONE WHO GIVES A SHIT ABOUT THE RULES?!!

Edited October 18, 2011 by The Nal

[kaosmark2]

Dreadful. One of the worst ideas in years, and that's including the Old Firm moving south.

[The Nal]

Dreadful. One of the worst ideas in years, and that's including the Old Firm moving south.

[ralph250]

Fergie:

If you look at the Championship at the moment, we have at least eight teams with tradition and history. What do you say to those eight teams? That they can never play in the premier division? I think that would be absolute suicide for the rest of league and particularly the teams in the Championship.

“You might as well lock the doors. The only place you can make money and realise your ambitions is in the Premier League and you can’t take that away from clubs like Nottingham Forest, Leeds United, Sheffield United and Sheffield Wednesday.

“All these great teams, who formed the nucleus of our old First Division all those years ago. It would be unwise to do that.”

As Kaosmark said, there's clubs with more history/fanbase. Considering going closed shop would purely be an attempt to secure their investment and make money, to maximise that, they wouldn't want the likes of Wigan in the league. Financially I can't see it making much sense either, as remove relegation and remove a high amount of the exciting games in the second half of the season, cue reduction of the TV fees. Only top 4 games and the odd derby for bragging rights would mean anything. Whereas now 17th v 18th is the "6 pointer" with lots riding on it, suddenly we'll find a draft system in the league and clubs with nothing to play for tending towards defeat and 20th so they get first pick the following season.

[The Nal]

Financially I can't see it making much sense either

[eFestivals]

For once I like what's come out of fergie's mouth. It makes a change.

[kaosmark2]

Why are there loads of ridiculous proposals coming through at the moment? Reawakening of the Old Firm argument, selling rights seperately, closing off the Prem? Has everyone got excess stupidity from it being outside of the transfer window and needing to spout off?

Almost as bad as Liverpool paying 35 million for Andy Carroll. Almost.

[ralph250]

Good news for Arsenal; secured Vermaelen to new deal. Just need to get him fit now.

Wenger reveals Arsenal mutiny

Tuesday October 18 2011

Arsene Wenger has claimed "half the dressing room wanted to leave" Arsenal this summer and the hangover could be behind their poor start to the season.

Sunday's 2-1 win over Sunderland lifted the Gunners back into the top half of the table, but they are 12 points off the pace at the top of the table already. Their early season struggles were highlighted by the 8-2 defeat to Manchester United, coming on the back of a summer that saw Cesc Fabregas and Samir Nasri sold despite Wenger's insistence he wanted them to stay.

"It was a very difficult summer because half the dressing room wanted to leave," Wenger said in comments made on French radio station RTL and reported by the Guardian. "You're preparing for a season where you don't know who's going to come in, the players who are staying are asking themselves what's going on at the club, you've got a pre-season tour of Asia."

He added: "It was extraordinarily difficult. What saved us is that we're a club that are extremely solid and united. Other clubs would surely have gone to pieces in those circumstances.

"What people forget is that we lost three key players because we've also lost [Jack] Wilshere. Three who were important in our midfield. Nasri, Fabregas and Wilshere have all been lost and they were the basis of our midfield last season.

"We've had to reconstruct our midfield entirely because Wilshere won't be back until January. Still, we've disappointed this season so far, given what's expected of us, but I think we're on the up again. The problem is you can only climb the table slowly.

"We're not too far away in terms of points from fourth place. We're too far away from the top two."

Wenger admitted that simple economics meant that players wanted to leave Arsenal because there was more money on offer elsewhere.

"It's not that [players have to leave to win titles]," he said. "The problem isn't that. Frankly, if you compare what Manchester City have won in the past and what Arsenal have won, then you don't go to Manchester City to win titles. Players go to Manchester City because they pay much better than Arsenal.

"They are a force clearly, because they have exceptional financial clout, so it's not surprising what they've done."

http://www.google.co...31318923391649A

Edited October 18, 2011 by ralph250

[The Nal]

For once I like what's come out of fergie's mouth. It makes a change.

Edited October 18, 2011 by The Nal

[eFestivals]

You didn't honestly expect him to say anything else did you? Anyone who says anything supporting this idea is a clown.

While I wouldn't have thought he'd be a supporter of the idea, I am mildly surprised that he's said anything about it all - after all, his bosses are very likely to be some of those who are pushing this idea. While Utd aren't in danger of relegation at this moment, it's not beyond the possibilities especially given Utd's precarious financial state, and it's not so long ago that Utd spent some time in the second division.

And good on Dave Whelan - he's said he'd resign Wigan from the Prem and take them into the Champs if this idea ever went ahead.

[eFestivals]

His only 4 months in football ever really. 18 games or something?! I think he could turn out to be the worst transfer in the history of football. We're already 10 months into his Liverpool career (7.2 million in transfer fees and nearly 3 million in wages thus far) and hes scored what? 3 goals?

to be fair to the guy he's put the ball in the net a fair few times more, and while they've been ruled out for one reason or another, few of them being ruled out have been his direct fault.

And for much of that time he's either been injured or Kenny has elected not to play him for tactical reasons (such as on Saturday), so his goals per game are better than those words of yours suggest.

I can't see him ever justifying that £35M fee from his performances on the pitch*, but I don't see it as impossible that he'll justify a fee of around £20M within a year or two. Added to a not awful goal-per-game ratio if the ruled-outs are included is the fact that he's still quite young.

(* I still think there's added value to buying him via the ambition it showed of Liverpool, but that's not included in what I've said there).

Kenny doesn't seem to think hes good enough to play at home, even to being on as a sub, against a 2nd string Utd team playing for a draw. Even though Liverpool have wide players knocking balls into the box now.

If I'd have picked the team for that match I wouldn't have included him either, only on the basis of the type of player he is rather than on what he may or may not do - tho with hindsight and Utd being so (relatively) poor, perhaps it might have been a game where he'd have had a fair bit of joy. But Kenny wasn't to know that at the point he picked the team.

[kaosmark2]

Good news for Arsenal; secured Vermaelen to new deal. Just need to get him fit now.

Important win at the weekend but not sure Arsenal are out of the woods yet, to say they've been saved or didn't go to pieces. They're in an okay position now I guess with 10 points, but their 3 wins this season have come at home against Swansea, Bolton and Sunderland (with the latter two struggling at the moment). I'm not sure wins against those teams in their current state are that indicative of Arsenal recovering and being back on track. All 3 were at the Emirates, and only the Bolton game, you could say they won comfortably, and they've conceded 22 goals already, 4 more than Blackburn. Swansea was 1-0, Sunderland was a pretty late winner and after starting brightly fell to pieces a bit after conceding Larsson's freekick. Doing okay in Europe but not been convincing at all.

Stoke next (luckily at home) followed by Chelsea (a). Stoke aren't the best travellers but its not the kind of game that Arsenal enjoy, not unfeasible Arsenal could be still on 10 points from 10 games after those, and a point per game isn't going to get them far up the table. Improvements needed but the win should give them a bit of self-belief. Fear for them if Van Persie gets injured.

[ralph250]

Striker for Newcastle, Maiga.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/newcastle-united/8833499/Newcastle-United-set-to-sign-long-term-target-Modibo-Maiga-when-January-transfer-window-opens.html

[kaosmark2]

His only 4 months in football ever really. 18 games or something?! I think he could turn out to be the worst transfer in the history of football. We're already 10 months into his Liverpool career (7.2 million in transfer fees and nearly 3 million in wages thus far) and hes scored what? 3 goals?

Kenny doesn't seem to think hes good enough to play at home, even to being on as a sub, against a 2nd string Utd team playing for a draw. Even though Liverpool have wide players knocking balls into the box now.

His fitness - 35 million on a player who refuses/cant get fit?

If it was any other team there would be serious questions to answer, for that money, just as Chelski are getting over Torres. Ill give Daglish 10/10 for his media dealings on the matter thus far. Exactly what you want from your manager.

[kaosmark2]

While I wouldn't have thought he'd be a supporter of the idea, I am mildly surprised that he's said anything about it all - after all, his bosses are very likely to be some of those who are pushing this idea. While Utd aren't in danger of relegation at this moment, it's not beyond the possibilities especially given Utd's precarious financial state, and it's not so long ago that Utd spent some time in the second division.

And good on Dave Whelan - he's said he'd resign Wigan from the Prem and take them into the Champs if this idea ever went ahead.

[kaosmark2]

Striker for Newcastle, Maiga.

http://www.telegraph...ndow-opens.html

[eFestivals]

Tbf, I'm not. I don't see the foreign owners of the top clubs wanting it, as it wouldn't make sense to reduce the competitiveness further down the league, at least it wouldn't unless clubs start selling rights seperately (which has already been shot down).

Hmmmm ..... it makes a hell of a lot more sense than competitiveness if your motivations are money and relegation guarantees you bankruptcy.

And aside from them not being much likely to see anything beyond the money, I don't think most yanks would even get what it is about competitiveness that makes football attractive to footie fans.

[kaosmark2]

Hmmmm ..... it makes a hell of a lot more sense than competitiveness if your motivations are money and relegation guarantees you bankruptcy.

And aside from them not being much likely to see anything beyond the money, I don't think most yanks would even get what it is about competitiveness that makes football attractive to footie fans.

[ralph250]

Definitely need him fit. Koscielny was awful again.

Yes, but neither are losses to Man U, Liverpool and Spurs that tragic. 0-0 at St James' is a good result considering how we've been so far this season, leaving only the Blackburn games as a really disgraceful result. Fixture list and injuries have been harsh to them, although they really need to improve defensively. With decent defending, they might have won the Blackburn game and possibly even the Man U one, they scored enough and created several other chances in both. Arshavin looked bright when he came on, and if he actually starts performing again, he could effectively replace Nasri considering his irrelevance last season. Ramsey's been excellent so far, and Song's still improving. Gervinho's slipped under the media radar since returning from suspension, but I reckon he's been playing well, offerring a different style in attack.

I'm not saying they're going to do particularly well, they're still not looking brilliant except for brief periods of games, but if they can get Vermaelen fit, or Djourou to be consistent, then they could quite easily do respectably.