Homeopathy on the NHS

[windy_miller]

Seriously ... what the fuck?!

http://homeoinst.org...cs-farm-animals

I despair, i really do. The EU has spent 2million euros looking into using homeopathy on cattle!?

Placebos don't work on animals! I could tell them that for free.

meanwhile we *still* fund this shite on the NHS. A Guardian pole last week found 55% of people were against it. 45% of this country are fucking idiots

really makes me mad

[wee_insomniac]

http://xkcd.com/765/

[windy_miller]

http://xkcd.com/765/

[pink_triangle]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/poll/2012/sep/04/do-you-believe-in-homeopathy-jeremy-hunt?newsfeed=true

As an NHS employer and occasional user, I have to say the last thing we need is a new health secretary who knows nothing about health and belives in this rubbish.

[Ed209]

completely agree. Also reports the Hunt tried to get the NHS part of the Olympic opening ceremony removed.

A detestable human being who would be right at home in the republican party.

[worm]

Homeopathy is bollocks, but if service users want it then it should be given. The NHS use a great deal of placebos in their medical treatments. What's the big deal here?

Edited September 5, 2012 by worm

[Ed209]

Homeopathy is bollocks, but if service users want it then it should be given. The NHS use a great deal of placebos in their medical treatments. What's the big deal here?

[Ed209]

Homeopathy is bollocks, but if service users want it then it should be given. The NHS use a great deal of placebos in their medical treatments. What's the big deal here?

[Ed209]

Homeopathy is bollocks, but if service users want it then it should be given. The NHS use a great deal of placebos in their medical treatments. What's the big deal here?

[Spartacus Mars]

My partner has MS and was recommended to a homeopathy section (for being quite rationally depressed about having MS) of the NHS despite her being educated and intelligent. As she is, like me, scientifically minded of course it wasn't for her/us.

My experience of it was that of a low-cost mental heath / domestic violence unit that would not have had any if it's patients if advertised as a mental health / domestic violence unit.

As such of course I reject the entire sugar-pill notion (excepting the scientific evidence that the placebo effect of sugar-pills have such a strong scientifically-proven medical effect sugar pills are necessary to introduce as controls in scientific trials), but homeopathy on the NHS in my limited experience is nothing (really) to do with sugar pills so much as giving vulnerable women access to mental health and emotional relief they would not otherwise get from the NHS - or anywhere else.

It's arguable they would be better treated from a dedicated mental health professional, but my understanding is they're so relatively rare they're busy dealing with what I can only inadequately describe as proper fruit-and-nut jobs.

Beware of dismissing placebo effects - the real point is placebo effects can actually work.

[eFestivals]

Homeopathy is bollocks, but if service users want it then it should be given. The NHS use a great deal of placebos in their medical treatments. What's the big deal here?

says the man who claims himself an adherent of science and not myths and fairy stories.

[worm]

says the man who claims himself an adherent of science and not myths and fairy stories.

[eFestivals]

the placebo effect is quite real and can be measured.

And? It's still not justification for making up a false science, and even less for why taxpayers money put aside for meaningful healthcare should be spunked on it.

Nothing around the placebo effect requires a fake science. It's perfectly possible to be only used within standard medicine - as it currently is.

[pink_triangle]

My partner has MS and was recommended to a homeopathy section (for being quite rationally depressed about having MS) of the NHS despite her being educated and intelligent. As she is, like me, scientifically minded of course it wasn't for her/us.

My experience of it was that of a low-cost mental heath / domestic violence unit that would not have had any if it's patients if advertised as a mental health / domestic violence unit.

As such of course I reject the entire sugar-pill notion (excepting the scientific evidence that the placebo effect of sugar-pills have such a strong scientifically-proven medical effect sugar pills are necessary to introduce as controls in scientific trials), but homeopathy on the NHS in my limited experience is nothing (really) to do with sugar pills so much as giving vulnerable women access to mental health and emotional relief they would not otherwise get from the NHS - or anywhere else.

It's arguable they would be better treated from a dedicated mental health professional, but my understanding is they're so relatively rare they're busy dealing with what I can only inadequately describe as proper fruit-and-nut jobs.

Beware of dismissing placebo effects - the real point is placebo effects can actually work.

[worm]

And? It's still not justification for making up a false science

Edited September 6, 2012 by worm

[worm]

Such as?

[worm]

I'm a service user, and I don't want it to be given. I want the money to spent better elsewhere. What about my wishes?

Edited September 6, 2012 by worm

[eFestivals]

The NHS didn't make it up. Nor does it give a shit about the validity of the theory behind it. It's only concern is whether it is effective or not. They are concerned with the outcome and nothing else. If it gets results and the theory behind it is bollocks then it's called a placebo effect.

Get a grip on what you're saying man.

I know what a placebo effect is, thanks.

What I'm saying is that the existence of a placebo effect does not require a fake science for it to be utilised. The fact that it is already utilised within standard medicine proves that there is no need for that fake science.

Get a grip on those brain cells man.

[eFestivals]

What's it got to do with you with what someone else wants?

I've just spent the last few days saying just the same thing to someone.

That someone supports choice when it's an utterly useless choice, but wishes to deny choice over the most self-important of all choices.

That's fascists for you.

Edited September 6, 2012 by eFestivals

[worm]

What I'm saying is that the existence of a placebo effect does not require a fake science for it to be utilised.

[worm]

I've just spent the last few days saying just the same thing to someone.

[eFestivals]

That's humanists for you.

corrected for you, you fascist discriminatory scum.

[worm]

corrected for you, you fascist discriminatory scum.

[Spindles]

My experience of it was that of a low-cost mental heath / domestic violence unit that would not have had any if it's patients if advertised as a mental health / domestic violence unit.

Beware of dismissing placebo effects - the real point is placebo effects can actually work.

[eFestivals]

Oh no, the big man said nasty things and changed my words to suit his image.

No, just to suit what I've said.

You don't put people first by feeding them worthless bullshit that causes more to die than it convinces its cured.