Poppy Fascism?

[eFestivals]

certainly "Protests" by the EDL should be banned. I use protest in the loose term here as I'm sure they would say they are protesting against something. Ban any facist protest. Or would you be in favour

I'm 100% in favour of the right of fascists to protest, despite being 100% against what they are protesting about.

It's called 'democracy'.

Perhaps you ought to give that idea of democracy a go yourself?

[sifi]

This explains why the armed forces are so interested in Afghanistan. They refine poppies over there left, right and centre ...

[eFestivals]

This idea that we should have or people fought of total freedom to do anything you want is laughable...

People can protest against the war (we had a million marching at one point) everyone pretty much supports this right. If you want to incite then people are going to take issue with that. Because its not protest, its incitement!!!

We have laws you have to live by... even you and your fucked up dogma Neil...

Yep, we have laws. Laws that say EVERYONE has the freedom to peacefully protest.

NOTE: "peacefully" means "without violence", and not "without making a noise".

Until yesterday - and without any sort of democratic vote in Parliament on the matter, either - when that right was removed from a group of Muslims only on the basis that some people are too thick to understand what democratic freedoms are about.

Just because you don't like the protest doesn't make it incitement. Grow up, for fucks sake. Didn't your mummy teach you that sticks and stones will break your bones but words will never hurt you?

[eFestivals]

I condemn the invasion of Iraq without much hesitation...

Happy now ?

But WTF that has to do with my point, fuck knows!

The point is that they're condemning it too - but in a method different to you.

Why do you think that condemning the invasion of Iraq can only be done in a Barry Fish approved method?

[sifi]

So Neil - would you defend the right of the Phelps family protesting at the funerals of dead serviceman screaming "God Hates Fags" because the American army has a "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" policy on gays?

I always thought I was very much of the "I might not agree with you, but I'll defend your right to say it" persuasion, but those nutters have changed my mind,

Edited November 11, 2011 by sifi

[fred quimby]

. Didn't your mummy teach you that sticks and stones will break your bones but words will never hurt you?

[eFestivals]

Your whole post directly relates people remembering the war dead as some sort of support for the actions of the British Parliament telling the forces to do this stuff.

Its a total misunderstanding only an idiot of your proportions could achieve!

PMSL.

Not a jot of what I've said there is remotely about what you believe it is. The words you've put in my direction apply to you and just you.

All of the "war dead" that Britain is currently suffering is as a result of Britain's choice. Those who are dying on the other side do not have one iota of that same choice, and as a result they view it in a completely different way.

[eFestivals]

It is VERY MUCH about the method... They are doing in a way that is seen as incitement...

Its very much about the law and not your opinion Neil.

The laws that were used to ban their protest was anti-terrorism laws, and nothing else.

Care to tell me what part of them shouting a bit and setting fire to some paper flowers is terrorism?

[eFestivals]

So Neil - would you defend the right of the Phelps family protesting at the funerals of dead serviceman screaming "God Hates Fags" because the American army has a "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" policy on gays?

I always thought I was very much of the "I might not agree with you, but I'll defend your right to say it" persuasion, but those nutters have changed my mind,

I find it, I guess, no less offensive than some find the burning of poppies.

I would rather it didn't happen, but that's a completely different thing to taking action to stop it happening. If we are only to allow 'approved protests' then we might as well hand the world over to Bin Laden's heirs right now.

[eFestivals]

I think anyone defending those people need to take a long hard look at themselves...

your small mind is getting very confused over the difference between supporting the right of protest and supporting the protests of those who might use that right.

Like I said there are real battles to be won out there over protests. These aren't them.

If we take your line of only allowing approved protests then the battle is lost already.

[eFestivals]

Oh dear lord we are down to Question Time levels of silliness now to try and win a point...

I think you mean the "Terrorism Act"... The Terrorism Act contained laws not directly related to terrorism. Go and protest against them if you don't like them. But it is THE LAW.

tiny tiny tiny tiny mind.

You're beyond hope.

[fred quimby]

I'm 100% in favour of the right of fascists to protest, despite being 100% against what they are protesting about.

It's called 'democracy'.

Perhaps you ought to give that idea of democracy a go yourself?

[eFestivals]

Oh dear lord we are down to Question Time levels of silliness now to try and win a point...

I think you mean the "Terrorism Act"... The Terrorism Act contained laws not directly related to terrorism. Go and protest against them if you don't like them. But it is THE LAW.

The law that was used to ban them says they're terrorists. Perhaps they are, I don't know - that's nothing to do with my support for their right to protest.

If they are terrorists, what new information came to light just yesterday that required them to be banned from midnight?

It's clear to anyone but a one-cell amoeba that they were banned just yesterday to stop them protesting today.

Which is fuck all to do with terrorism, and which comes to mean that the terrorism laws have been mis-used and abused to deny people their right to peaceful protest.

FFS.

[eFestivals]

Fair dos I stand on the NO platform for Facists. That being my democratic right

Democracy = The rule of the people

Yep, but the rights to expression that you wish to deny others can be quickly turned onto yourself.

I hate to put the H word in here cos for morons it leads nowhere good, but just the slightest historical knowledge gets to show you were it goes.

But hey, Muslims against Crusades can add you as a support of their great victory in being banned., a victory they're able to proclaim on the basis of their dislike of the democracy you say you support.

[eFestivals]

You do understand this is the same group that have changed their name about five times now ?

Yep.

And I also understand that this group have operated for over a year, and that the only time they've made waves (but nothing terrorist) was last year on 11th Nov.

If they're so dangerous that they need banning because they're the same dangerous people as who were in those other dangerous groups, then I have no problem with that at all.

But I do have a problem with the fact that our govt have taken over a year to ban them. If they're known as being so dangerous thru those other groups, that same situation existed over a year ago.

So why the ban coming into force today, when they were known to be planning a peaceful protest today?

C'mon Michael, sometimes you're mightily dim and unable to join up the dots, but even you're bright enough to see what's gone here, surely?

Edited November 11, 2011 by eFestivals

[eFestivals]

So we should fear the law being used against us ? In that case we would be breaking the law which the democratic government of the UK have passed.

You say its like its a negative thing to live by the law.

It depends on the law and how it's used you plonker.

Nazi Germany deported millions of Jews to their deaths within the law. Was that only good too?

[fred quimby]

I hate to put the H word in here

[Rufus Gwertigan]

certainly "Protests" by the EDL should be banned. I use protest in the loose term here as I'm sure they would say they are protesting against something. Ban any facist protest. Or would you be in favour

[fred quimby]

I have made no secret that I go to a lot of EDL rallies, mainly to quietly voice my disent to them (I am not part of the UAF either). Now I don't have a problem with the EDL protesting. They say very little and achieve even less at a demo. But I would rather they be allowed the right to say what they want then censorship. However I do become a hipprocrite once a group begins to advocate violence or harrassment to others, then action needs to be taken at a demo, but I would still allow what they have said to be published in the papers, so people can see what utter w*nkers they are. If the groups long term goals are to incite violence, then so long matey

[eFestivals]

a case of you talking about something you know little about then.

[fred quimby]

a case of you talking about something you know little about then.

[eFestivals]

They do "glorify" terror which is illegal.

they say that acts within a war are justified, no different to our govt. When Dave being banged up as well then?

So the got banned. If you don't like the law (or in your opinion its misuse) that stops people glorifying terror then go and protest....

You might have a point if that had anything to do with anything. In this case it certainly doesn't.

They were banned because of "their support for terrorism" (by more than just words).

So I say again: what new evidence of their support for terrorism came to light just yesterday?

You and me both know the answer to that: none at all.

So anyone but the brain dead can see that they were banned merely to stop their protest.

How you think a banned terrorist group can be seeking to perform real protest is well beyond me. They are clearly looking to incite which is 100% illegal.

PMSL. It's only "incite" because their protest makes you angry, because you disagree with it. The same idiot logic can now be used against any protest, with your full approval (even if [unlikely I know] you're one of the protesters).

So its lose lose lose on this idea we should be standing up for them. But hey, you can choose the own company you wish to keep!

Oh for fucks sake. How stupid are you being? It's laughable.

I am standing up for the right for you to protest, for me to protest and for anyone else to protest.

They have only been banned because they wanted to peacefully protest, and the small minded anti-democratic little englanders don't want Muslims of a particular view have the same right of protest as others.

Everything else are your own (and May's) inventions.

[kaosmark2]

Long set of replies to all Fish's comments:

This idea that we should have or people fought of total freedom to do anything you want is laughable...

People can protest against the war (we had a million marching at one point) everyone pretty much supports this right. If you want to incite then people are going to take issue with that. Because its not protest, its incitement!!!

We have laws you have to live by... even you and your fucked up dogma Neil...

[eFestivals]

Because people being angry about the burning the poppy leads to jews being executed on mass...

I don't think that was on the ballot papers Neil to be fair to the Germans.

With this lack of logic going around we could claim anything leads to anything today...

So when was banning people from protesting and burning poppies on the ballot paper here then?

[Rufus Gwertigan]

Probably a different debate but isn't this how they legitmise themselves to start with and therefore be able to try and spread their hate. I don't see the EDL without their hatefull harrasement and agenda as being part of it.

Edited November 11, 2011 by Rufus Gwertigan