Football 2010-2011

[The Nal]

fair point, yeah. robinho then? hows he getting on just now.

[spwan-of-the-devil]

fair point, yeah. robinho then? hows he getting on just now. i know he had a good qualifying campaign and world cup. miles away from city form.

[Wooderson]

Thats insane. A player starts drinking, smoking and f**king 2x4s and its the manager that should leave?!! Why?

Theres maybe, maybe, 1% of Utd fans that think that, and that 1% are 100% wrong. Also, Ive never seen such an outpouring of understanding and love for Fergie yesterday. Unbelievable.

Edited October 20, 2010 by Wooderson

[eFestivals]

I find it hard to believe that Rooney is leaving purely & solely for more money. His comments to the media about his ankle prove that his respect for his egomaniac manager has ran out. It was a shrewd media play from Rooney. He hurt his manager in front of the people Ferguson fears most. I don't blame Rooney in the slightest for wanting to leave. As good (if not better) players have fallen out with Ferguson before. His tantrums and maniacal behaviour can only be tolerated so much it seems. Its a smokescreen that Rooney's off-field behaviour has caused the rift. Ahab needs to realise that his team isnt so full of youth and talent that a player of Rooney's standard can be replaced. Though I see Danny Fulbrook in The Star ran an article in the last 24 hours that "Alec views Torres as the ideal replacement for Rooney" - now thats what I call insane mate.

I just read on Sky Sports Letters that Tommy Doherty has said that Fergie is an egotistical bully (tho I'm not sure if that's a recent thing he's said, since yesterday).

It's certainly the case that I view fergie's 'distress' yesterday as a PR stunt, designed to gain him sympathy and have Rooney labelled a traitor.

There's more to all this than fergie's letting on, I'm sure.

[The Nal]

He is not the issue here. The more questions that Ferguson asked yesterday the more it lead me to point the figure more and more at him. Other fans know why Rooney has left the club. Its because he's pissed off with Alec Ferguson. Granted the player may be tempted due to the nefarious whisperings of his agent - but primarily the relationship with this angry old man has pushed him to this decision. I for one applaud Wayne Rooney for at least being straight about it. Ferguson wasnt.

[eFestivals]

Ferguson was CLEARLY trying to protect the player and his poor performances.

yeah, you protect him by encouraging the supporters to turn on him, of course you do.

This is an age old arguement though. I remember having the "Utd are finished" conversation in 95 when Hughes and Ince left. Had the same conversation in 97 when King Eric retired, same in 01/02 when Yorke and Cole left, and same in 05 and 06 when Keane got fired and Ruud left.

It's a different situation now tho: Utd are skint.

[ralph250]

I find it hard to believe that Rooney is leaving purely & solely for more money.

[The Nal]

yeah, you protect him by encouraging the supporters to turn on him, of course you do.

Edited October 20, 2010 by The Nal

[Ed209]

I heard man city have offered Rooney 250 grans a week

[eFestivals]

Was Rooney that publically contradicted and disrespected his Manager.

only if it's the case that what fergie has said is truthful and what Rooney has said is lies.

None of us know which way it is.

If fergie hasn't bee truthful then it's fergie that has contradicted and disrespected his player.

He couldn't carry on with "no questions about Rooney". Had to make a public explaination purely because it's counter-productive to the team performing well if all the fans are calling for him to come on.

while I agree that it was a subject that had to be addressed, why hasn't Fergie done what he's been exceedingly happy to do on so many occasions previously, and come out with bullshit?

It seems pretty clear to me that his words yesterday were designed to try and isolate Rooney - from the other players at the club, from the fans, and hopefully (in fergie's eyes) from any other club wanting to sign him. It was fergie trying to say "you're nothing without me, boy".

It doesn't make much sense though if indeed was mid-august he decided he wasn't staying.

it's pretty clear that Rooney has been tapped up. Seems like it wasn't only Barca getting their players to do that job in SA.

But along with that - taking Rooney's previous comments at face value - I'd say that he believes that the club is f**ked, and on the slide.

If that's not right then there has to be something that gone on with him and fergie, and fergie was talking bollocks yesterday (which wouldn't be the first time when talking about players who are on the way out of Utd, as we all know).

We might not be the most affluent under the Glazers but they'll know they need a successful product to continue revenue growth.

yet they'll also know that there's no growth to be had. It's already maxed out.

On a financial basis, they'll be much better off by running things down some.

If Rooney's looking around the dressing room and .... the youth are rubbish and won't be good enough in the future,

Oh c'mon - Rooney's far from the only one thinking that.

-------

The more I think about it, the more I think he's on his way to Chelsea.

Roman has always wanted iconic players, and particularly English ones (he's not had them due to the lack of good enough ones &/or the lack of availability). Come next summer they'll be in need of a new striker, and who are the realistic options for an already-top striker? We all know they've been after Torres the last couple of summers and have failed, so they've moved onto Rooney.

Against that is Moaniho's comments last night, which could have been a "we're in for you Rooney, but I'll make the right noises so fergie doesn't go off on one". But perhaps that's reading too much into it.

[eFestivals]

This was only AFTER Rooney sparked it off himself, that wasnt Fergusons doing at all.

Fergie chose his own words. He could have bullshitted as he did with Beckham, skippy, and others.

And he didn't "encourage the supporters to turn" on Rooney. Unless you saw another press conference that we didn't?

It depends how you take his words. I was definitely seeing between the lines "fans, don't waste your breath on Rooney, he's not worth it, he's a traitor" in what he said.

[The Nal]

only if it's the case that what fergie has said is truthful and what Rooney has said is lies.

None of us know which way it is.

If fergie hasn't bee truthful then it's fergie that has contradicted and disrespected his player.

[ralph250]

This was only AFTER Rooney sparked it off himself, that wasnt Fergusons doing at all.

And he didn't "encourage the supporters to turn" on Rooney. Unless you saw another press conference that we didn't?

[Ed209]

Does anyone else think the person Rooney really had sex with was Alex Ferguson?

[The Nal]

The MUTV interview was a bit more direct

said pretty much along the lines with "I said to him only one thing, I said to him remember one thing, respect this club, don't want any nonsense from you, just respect the club, which, I'm not sure he's done that, I have my doubts and that, reading all these things about falling out with me and all that nonsense.".

[eFestivals]

Why would he do that?

for the same reasons he's chosen to bullshit about transfers previously?

"The door is still open", "Im shocked", "Im sad", "Im disappointed". Did you not heard any of that?

Yes, and more.

But even those words are designed to garner sympathy for fergie - which of course has the other side of dislike or more for Rooney.

What he could have come out with is:

"Waynes behaviour off the pitch and performances on the pitch have brought shame on the club, the fans, me, his family, his wife and his terribly named son. We’ve gone far and above the call of duty to protect the player from the English media who are out for his blood, particularly after the world cup. This has been a distraction for the club and the players and we’ve fired captains for this sort of nonsense before. Theres an offer there for Wayne which will make him the clubs highest paid player, he is the future captain of the club but he really needs to get his act together.

That’s it, no questions”.

That would've been fair enough! Thats how much of a c**t Rooney has been this year.

while that might have been fair enough, the result of that would have been sympathy for Rooney, because most people would feel that fergie had gone waaaaay too far with words like that.

No they havent. Theres already a thread for this though....

any growth in turnover will be so minimal now that it's as good as irrelevant.

But as you think differently, I'm sure the Utd board will love to hear the ideas that you have that they don't.

You could be right there yeah. Id prefer that to Citeh.

Oh, I'd much prefer he went to shitty. The raghe of you and other blinkered reds wouldn't subside for decades. You'd make the rantings of hammers about Ince look like kisses and cuddles.

I reckon it's always a good thing for a robber to be robbed back now and then. It might make them occasionally think twice.

[eFestivals]

As I posted above, thats still letting Rooney off!! Ferguson is right. Rooneys "people" leaking the fact that he wont be signing a new deal mid season. FFS!!

Why? He's perfectly entitled to say what his plans are.

You didn't rant like this when skippy made it clear he wasn't staying.

[The Nal]

for the same reasons he's chosen to bullshit about transfers previously?

Edited October 20, 2010 by The Nal

[eFestivals]

All after the fact though, damage was done as as you say by Rooney's peoples disclosure this week put it in the public.

Was it Rooney's people? How do you know?

While I'd say it's more likely to be Rooney's people, it could quite easily be Utd. The fact that they followed thru with a "let's slate Rooney" press conf gets to show there's issues here on both sides, for whatever reasons.

Fergies comments pretty much closing the book on him though, and saying to the fans get behind the team. He's a gonna, so support the players that want to play for the club. Siege mentality, the lot.

yep - that's the "rooney's a traitor" bit.

[The Nal]

Was it Rooney's people? How do you know?

While I'd say it's more likely to be Rooney's people, it could quite easily be Utd. The fact that they followed thru with a "let's slate Rooney" press conf gets to show there's issues here on both sides, for whatever reasons.

[eFestivals]

For good reason. He literally begged Ferguson to leave, by himself, on his hands and knees in Fergusons office, just the two of them, and it was sorted between themselves. In the off season. Fergie said Ronaldo had to stay for one more year, Ronaldo had his little tantrum in LA for 10 days and then came back and did the business with no complaints. With Rooney, his "people" contacted David Gill and said he wanted to leave and for some reason, in mid season, decide to unsettle the club. theres 20 odd other players that play for Man Utd too remember. And they have a champo league match tonight.

While I doubt it was exactly the same (what similar things ever are?), Rooney has ONLY said he won't sign a new contract from what's been revealed.

He's not demanded to be sold; he's made no suggestion of not trying to the team (otherwise, why has fergie played him?), and all this happened in what might be regarded as the 'off season' for a player who was at the WC.

It's not been said who contacted who (I noticed yesterday that you like to present your speculation as fact). But based on the fact that it had been agreed before the WC that they'd continue discussions after the WC, it would be quite reasonable for either side to contact the other, and of course if Rooney's side had something new to say on the situation it's right that they'd say it.

It's been Utd's choice with the timing. They could have said what was said yesterday at any point since 14th Aug. You can't hang that one on Rooney (but if you want to, then skippy saying he's off to the team just before going onto the pitch for the Chumps final is far far worse).

[The Nal]

It's not been said who contacted who (I noticed yesterday that you like to present your speculation as fact).

Edited October 20, 2010 by The Nal

[eFestivals]

Neil - you clearly havent been following the story.

There were rumblings in the press about it from August.

really? Where?

It's now come out that some of the press have been contacted about it from directions which aren't clear (might be rooney, might be utd), but nothing was being printed in Aug.

When Rooney came out last week and said his ankle wasn’t injured, he was clearly telling porkies. Everyone knew that.

Everyone knew it did they? Strange how utd fans have been calling for fergie to play a known injured player then.

I can't remember his exact words now, but it might be the case that he didn't actually say "my ankle hasn't been injured". From memory, wasn't it something about "there's no problem with my ankle, I've been able to train every day" (and fergie confirmed he'd been training every day yesterday)?

Rooney went off on a stretcher in training yesterday after injuring the ankle again.

after getting lumped by scholes (makes a change for a utd player to find out what that's like ).

Is it the same injury? You and me both have no idea.

Now how would Utd have manipulated that? They’ve been keeping it off the radar for two months and were hoping to do so until at least January.

Again, you and me have no idea what Utd have been doing or not doing. The rumours have surfaced, sure - but Rooney isn't the only possible source.

[ralph250]

only if it's the case that what fergie has said is truthful and what Rooney has said is lies.

None of us know which way it is.

If fergie hasn't bee truthful then it's fergie that has contradicted and disrespected his player.

[eFestivals]

"Who contacted who?" What do you mean? Rooneys agents etc and Utd?

They were always going to sit down in the summer and talk about a contract. Dont get you here.

And wheres this "speculation as fact"?

You said Rooney's people contacted Utd to tell Utd he won't sign a new contract. Yet it could have been Utd that contacted Rooney's peeps, and then got told that. I'm pretty sure that what fergie said yesterday didn't say who had contacted who (tho maybe I'm wrong with that, I'm not 100% sure).

Speculation as fact - yesterday you stated some things as certainties, yet after being queried on them by both me and ralph it became clear that you knew they weren't certainties even to you.