the merged banned Chinese Lanterns thread

[cejx]

Link?

[beamends]

Some farmer guy was complaining in the local rag about his cows eating the metal after a load cam down in his field after Beautiful Days a few year's ago - only a few died though, small price to play for pretty lights dripping vitriolic parraffin wax from the sky for a few minutes..

[Kyelo]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/6823696/Farmer-calls-for-ban-on-Chinese-lanterns-after-one-kills-his-cow.html

[ukslim]

This one works: linky

[alframsey]

Im not sure what to think. Would banning it simply appease the busy bodies who wish us to walk around in buble wrap or would it actually be a sensible idea? All I can say is Id hate to be the bloke who's tent caught fire due to one of those things, but similarly what are the odds of the actually happening????

[ukslim]

It seems to me there's no excuse for them having wire in them. With wooden supports they'd be 100% biodegradable.

You wouldn't (I hope) wander around the countryside chucking coathangers into grazing pastures, or lit tealights into hayfields. Why does getting some pretty lights make it OK?

Mitigation that would make it OK:

• 100% (or near as dammit) biodegradable construction

• Usage that guarantees (or near as dammit) that the thing won't return to the ground until the candle's gone out. That means anything but the tiniest breeze stops play.

[mikeb]

Some farmer guy was complaining in the local rag about his cows eating the metal after a load cam down in his field after Beautiful Days a few year's ago - only a few died though, small price to play for pretty lights dripping vitriolic parraffin wax from the sky for a few minutes..

Edited January 20, 2010 by mikeb

[tommmy]

Last year I saw somebody with a stick.

Honestly,he could have had someones eye out

[cejx]

It seems to me there's no excuse for them having wire in them. With wooden supports they'd be 100% biodegradable.

You wouldn't (I hope) wander around the countryside chucking coathangers into grazing pastures, or lit tealights into hayfields. Why does getting some pretty lights make it OK?

Mitigation that would make it OK:

• 100% (or near as dammit) biodegradable construction

• Usage that guarantees (or near as dammit) that the thing won't return to the ground until the candle's gone out. That means anything but the tiniest breeze stops play.

[5co77ie]

TBH, I was under the impression that the 'proper' ones use bamboo and twine (or similar) for the frame and a minimum of metal foil etc. I don't entirely support using them and I certainly wouldn't buy or use them myself ... but I don't see the need to ban them or feel the need to get that upset about them either ! With a reasonable amount of common sense there isn't a huge risk of imminent disaster.

I would have thought that litter/rubbish in general and things like airborne flares (which let's face it are totally inappropriate anyway) or even just simple fireworks are much more of a real issue. Not sure if it was last year or the year before but 2 or 3 of those red parachute stylee flares came down in the crowd at the Pyramid just a few metres away from me and I can assure you they were still very much alive and cooking when they hit the deck. Get one of them land on you (or a tent, marquee, stage etc.) and you'd certainly know all about it as well as quite possibly finding out first hand how good the medical/fire guys at Glasto are. Also, as others have already said, campsite fires and hand-held wax flares just have to be far more likely to cause damage and injury than proper lanterns deployed sensibly.

Banning anything/everything that might potentially cause some problem or other somewhere is NOT an appropriate alternative to education or in any way a realistic replacement for common sense IMHO.

Edited January 20, 2010 by 5co77ie

[bob parkhurst]

And the cows, you don't want half a ton of blazing beef running amok!

Carnage

[mikeb]

I know exactly what you mean 5co77ie but I'm still very much of the opinion that 'proper' lanterns are not that big a deal and do not (or at least should not) contain any significant amount of wire/metal or other non-biodegradable material. For instance:

... our lanterns unlike many other types of sky lanterns available are manufactured entirely from environmentally friendly and biodegradable materials, for example recycled acid-free 17gsm paper, waste bamboo and wax. When the fuel cell extinguishes the lanterns parachute gently back to earth and will biodegrade.

Edited January 20, 2010 by mikeb

[grumpyhack]

Tis a difficult one. I 'ooh' and 'arrh' with most other people as I see the lanterns rise and float over the site. Very pretty.

It's easy to take the mick out of over-zealous Health & Safety rules but festival organisers have a duty of care and a responsibility to both festival goers and the local community.

Remember that the big lanterns can travel up to 20 miles before coming to ground so it's not just the confines of the site that GFL have to worry about.

With so much else to see and amuse us at Glasto I'd be happy to go along with the no lanterns ruling just in case.

But probably people will continue setting them off until something goes seriously wrong such as a tent or a local thatched cottage catching fire.

[5co77ie]

I know exactly what you mean 5co77ie but I'm still very much of the opinion that 'proper' lanterns are not that big a deal and do not (or at least should not) contain any significant amount of wire/metal or other non-biodegradable material. For instance:

as quoted on the first website I found via Mr.Google. Maybe they're not being entirely honest or maybe it's just that there are many more less environmentally friendly and cheaper types more readily available but it seems to me that this type of lantern does not have to be big problem at all. The 'right' thing used responsibly and with common sense should not be an issue.

Above image and quote taken from This Site although this is by no means a recommendation, just the first traditional example I came across.

Edited January 20, 2010 by 5co77ie

[mikeb]

I've never bought or used one myself or even seen one that close up to tell exactly how it's made so you may well be 100% right ... but, I still reckon that it's possible to make one without wire/metal and for it to be pretty much entirely biodegradable. Hand-held wax flares don't need metal and they generally burn out long before the wooden part goes up don't they ? I'm almost tempted to buy a pack to find out the facts but as I said earlier, I'm not really a huge fan of them even though they do look kinda good.

I can well understand the wax dripping tho, as it does from hand-held flares of course ... as admirably demonstrated by the numerous waxy patches on Ye Olde Tent thanks to various irresponsible neighbours over the years

Edited January 20, 2010 by mikeb

[Paadzer]

I hate them, pointless trend

[denwyn]

Bugger the toy lanterns i'm going with these babies

[LusciousLucy]

Having read enough articles about the poor cowlings and other wildlife being put in danger from the countryside being littered in non-biodegradable wire I am all for this trend to end.

A very pricey waste of money too. Everyone seems to be 'doing it' now and so the one you spent your £4 on is lost in amongst all the hundreds of others being let off. Go spend the money on a donation to Water Aid or if you are selfish, a pint of Hot & Spicy.

I'm all for marriage proposals being written on the lantern being an excuse for setting one off but other than that the novelty of lighting a paper bag for £4 and watching it fly away to possibly injure an animal when it lands for is very silly indeed.

[laid back in the sun]

wire is biodegradable... its called rusting!

[mikeb]

Funny you should say that - the very same thought randomly crossed my mind earlier this evening for no particularly good reason ! I'm not sure whether some metals can technically be considered biodegradable or not. Some quite obviously aren't but for others it's less clear. I suppose it kinda depends on your definition of biodegradable. If the definition is broad enough to cover decomposition by any means rather than just by some form of biological action then yes, iron and some steels for instance could perhaps be considered as officially biodegradable as they will ultimately end up as primarily iron oxide (given sufficient time and the right conditions) which is a naturally occurring material.

Hmmmmmm, I don't think I would personally consider metals biodegradable tho, at least not without a serious amount of persuasion and even then it would be a very reluctant acceptance. I certainly wouldn't consider dumping chunks of metal all over the place as being environmentally friendly that's for sure. My personal view is that if these lanterns contain any significant amount of metal and/or can easily cause injury or harm to domestic animals or wildlife etc. then stating that they're "environmentally friendly" and "100% biodegradable" is stretching the point way beyond what I would ever consider acceptable.

Edited January 21, 2010 by mikeb

[paulo999]

wire is biodegradable... its called rusting!

[ukslim]

wire is biodegradable... its called rusting!

[laid back in the sun]

the risk to livestock from these things is miniscule compared to the amount damage caused by people chucking empty tins and bottles out of car windows into fields, i've often seen mowing machines working in fields beside public roads and the noise of bottles being smashed up by them is unmistakable and finding shards of tin cans in silage or bales of hay is a common occurence plus the way the lanterns descend from the sky when the fuel block is burnt out means they are much more likely to end up catching on trees and hedges where they dont pose a risk to livestock

[laid back in the sun]

wire rusts, it becomes weakend by this over time, ends up fragmenting and the pieces eventually return the ground as iron oxide where biological processes continue to break them down and they become part of the makeup of the soil

[rabid]

the risk to livestock from these things is miniscule compared to the amount damage caused by people chucking empty tins and bottles out of car windows into fields, i've often seen mowing machines working in fields beside public roads and the noise of bottles being smashed up by them is unmistakable and finding shards of tin cans in silage or bales of hay is a common occurence plus the way the lanterns descend from the sky when the fuel block is burnt out means they are much more likely to end up catching on trees and hedges where they dont pose a risk to livestock