Things that ur happy about

[eFestivals]

10 hours ago, feral chile said:

I can attest that they have to take the blame for a lot of things they can't do anything about,

That might be true, but it's also the case that they don't wish to do anything about them, either.

When a problem that is clear illogically-stupid gets hit - and that seems to be nearly all problems - the operator refuses to own the problem to get it addressed.

Everything about their bad procedures is thrown back on the individual to sort.

And guess what? While you can raise a problem about a personal tax problem, there is no way to raise a procedural problem. As an organisation they have NO department that will accept a complaint (a letter to the head is the ONLY way) because, guess what? They don't need a department for that because their procedures are already perfect.

Yep, really. That's their intellectual approach to it.

[eFestivals]

9 hours ago, feral chile said:

No employee will publicly criticise their employer, particularly when they're working, and being monitored.

and you wonder why the world rolls over and lets shit happen.

It's not the world that rolls over feral, it's people like you who happily go along with shit so that you can keep on picking up your pay packet without a care. You're alright, jack, so what's the worry?

Things only change when people try to change them. If people like you won't take responsibility for what you do, it's no fucking wonder that govt don't give a shit either.

[feral chile]

15 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

Oh, it's much worse than that. I've raised this here before...

HMRC have a rule that a fine is suspended for 3 months if a letter (based around a fine) is returned to them.

However, they have no system to operate that rule. Even tho they know the letter has been returned to them so they know a fine isn't within their rules they still issue the fine. A £400 fine, btw, in the majority of these cases.

I got myself sorted out with the fine, but was concerned that HMRC are issuing fines they shouldn't issue.

So I wrote to the head of HMRC about it. Her reply was (essentially) "tough shit. We'll keep issuing the fines we shouldn't issue, and it's down to the individual to contact HMRC to have it revoked. We think this is a good system".

I contacted my MP about it, who contacted HMRC. HMRC told him the same, and he thought that was acceptable (Stephen Williams, ex-LibDem MP, uncaring shit).

 

This must be an area I'm unfamiliar with - I'm guessing employer compliance

It sounds from what you've said as though it's an automatic fixed penalty of some kind.

 

[feral chile]

37 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

and you wonder why the world rolls over and lets shit happen.

It's not the world that rolls over feral, it's people like you who happily go along with shit so that you can keep on picking up your pay packet without a care. You're alright, jack, so what's the worry?

Things only change when people try to change them. If people like you won't take responsibility for what you do, it's no fucking wonder that govt don't give a shit either.

Publlicly I said. You're not going to change your organisation by getting yourself turfed out for gross misconduct. You might by constantly addressing problems with senior management and to unions.

You never know, management might even encourage this.

Edited January 13, 2017 by feral chile

[eFestivals]

29 minutes ago, feral chile said:

This must be an area I'm unfamiliar with - I'm guessing employer compliance

It sounds from what you've said as though it's an automatic fixed penalty of some kind.

 

nope, that was to do with a personal tax return.

There is no automatic penalty when a letter is returned. You should know that, that's HMRC's own rules!

HMRC issue a penalty anyway.

Edited January 13, 2017 by eFestivals

[eFestivals]

26 minutes ago, feral chile said:

Publlicly I said. You're not going to change your organisation by getting yourself turfed out for gross misconduct. You might by constantly addressing problems with senior management and to unions.

You never know, management might even encourage this.

So you're trying to tell me that staff will tell the customer they'll do fuck all, but then the staff will do something anyway? PMSL.

Will they fuck.

[eFestivals]

3 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

nope, that was to do with a personal tax return.

There is no automatic penalty when a letter is returned. You should know that, that's HMRC's own rules!

HMRC issue a penalty anyway.

PS: when this happened to me, they sent the "you must do a tax return letter" to an old address, yet managed to send me previous letters AND the fine notice to my correct address.

So absolutely everything about this issue was caused by HMRC being utterly utterly crap.

[feral chile]

58 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

That might be true, but it's also the case that they don't wish to do anything about them, either.

When a problem that is clear illogically-stupid gets hit - and that seems to be nearly all problems - the operator refuses to own the problem to get it addressed.

Everything about their bad procedures is thrown back on the individual to sort.

And guess what? While you can raise a problem about a personal tax problem, there is no way to raise a procedural problem. As an organisation they have NO department that will accept a complaint (a letter to the head is the ONLY way) because, guess what? They don't need a department for that because their procedures are already perfect.

Yep, really. That's their intellectual approach to it.

 

OK there is a complaints procedure.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/complain-to-hm-revenue-and-customs

[feral chile]

4 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

PS: when this happened to me, they sent the "you must do a tax return letter" to an old address, yet managed to send me previous letters AND the fine notice to my correct address.

So absolutely everything about this issue was caused by HMRC being utterly utterly crap.

That's really odd, and frustrating. Addresses can only be changed by the individual themselves or if another government department has been notified of a change of address. It might be worth writing in with your correct address, with the details of which office sent out the letter to the incorrect address. That way someone will check your address is correct on all of your records. In case the old address hasn't updated as it should.

[eFestivals]

19 minutes ago, feral chile said:

 

OK there is a complaints procedure.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/complain-to-hm-revenue-and-customs

it's a complaints procedure only for personal tax matters.

There is no method to raise complaints about procedures. Been there, got the t-shirt.

[eFestivals]

Just now, eFestivals said:

it's a complaints procedure only for personal tax matters.

There is no method to raise complaints about procedures. Been there, got the t-shirt.

and you see, when the employees - even long-term employees - don't even know what their own employer's complaint's procedures are for, it only shows just how shit it is.

[eFestivals]

14 minutes ago, feral chile said:

That's really odd, and frustrating. Addresses can only be changed by the individual themselves or if another government department has been notified of a change of address. It might be worth writing in with your correct address, with the details of which office sent out the letter to the incorrect address. That way someone will check your address is correct on all of your records. In case the old address hasn't updated as it should.

how do you think they'd got my new address to send some of the letters to the right address? I feckin' told them. 

Fuck knows how they sent a letter to the old address, but that's what they did.

[feral chile]

29 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

So you're trying to tell me that staff will tell the customer they'll do fuck all, but then the staff will do something anyway? PMSL.

Will they fuck.

Without knowing the specifics, say you have a situation where an increasingly automated system doesn't have a way of setting up something that would be useful. The customer would be told that at present we have no way to change this automated process. The staff member will escalate a suggestion for an upgrade to the system.

Cost and potential impact will then be considered.

It's taxpayers money that has to be treated responsibly. Even simple changes, to wording, to processes, have hidden costs. So a very expensive change that affects relatively few people might contravene impartiality because the negative impact would outweigh the positive. Also, the cost of collecting tax is part of public expenditure, so the bigger picture of tax revenue and public services has to be considered.

It is extremely frustrating, I agree.  

[eFestivals]

1 minute ago, feral chile said:

Without knowing the specifics, say you have a situation where an increasingly automated system doesn't have a way of setting up something that would be useful. The customer would be told that at present we have no way to change this automated process. The staff member will escalate a suggestion for an upgrade to the system.

Cost and potential impact will then be considered.

It's taxpayers money that has to be treated responsibly. Even simple changes, to wording, to processes, have hidden costs. So a very expensive change that affects relatively few people might contravene impartiality because the negative impact would outweigh the positive. Also, the cost of collecting tax is part of public expenditure, so the bigger picture of tax revenue and public services has to be considered.

It is extremely frustrating, I agree.  

I raised the fact that HMRC are unlawfully issuing fines.

The head of HMRC wrote back to tell me they don't give a fuck and they'll keep issuing unlawful fines that they know they shouldn't be issuing.

What aren't you understanding?

It's like that from the boss, and it's no better from the peeps who answer the phones. When they say they'll be doing fuck all about being incompetent, they really REALLY mean they'll be doing fuck all.

[feral chile]

25 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

how do you think they'd got my new address to send some of the letters to the right address? I feckin' told them. 

Fuck knows how they sent a letter to the old address, but that's what they did.

Only 2 ways I can think of. Either your address changed incorrectly to your previous address at some stage, or a specific database isn't getting updated centrally as it should, and retains the old one and needs a manual update.

[feral chile]

2 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

I raised the fact that HMRC are unlawfully issuing fines.

The head of HMRC wrote back to tell me they don't give a fuck and they'll keep issuing unlawful fines that they know they shouldn't be issuing.

What aren't you understanding?

It's like that from the boss, and it's no better from the peeps who answer the phones. When they say they'll be doing fuck all about being incompetent, they really REALLY mean they'll be doing fuck all.

Have you got a link to the particular breach of law? 

[eFestivals]

7 minutes ago, feral chile said:

Have you got a link to the particular breach of law? 

Maybe 'law' is over-stating it. It's very definitely an HMRC rule.

Ask your boss!

[feral chile]

Good point.

Neil, I'd love to be able to help you, it doesn't look like I could turn this around to a happy ending for you though.

Let's chat about something nice instead.

Edited January 13, 2017 by feral chile
See below missing quote

[feral chile]

29 minutes ago, Scruffylovemonster said:

Thought this was for things you're happy about. Shouldn't it now be in the opposite thread? 

 

Above was response to the lovemonster.

[eFestivals]

6 minutes ago, feral chile said:

Good point.

Neil, I'd love to be able to help you, it doesn't look like I could turn this around to a happy ending for you though.

Let's chat about something nice instead.

if the boss of HMRC doesn't give a shit about tens of thousands of people being wrongly fined, I didn't think you'd be able to sort it.

It's not a problem for me. I got my personal issue sorted cos I'm a persistent fecker and know what's what ... I pursued it cos what HMRC are doing is a long way from fair and reasonable.

 

[feral chile]

1 hour ago, eFestivals said:

if the boss of HMRC doesn't give a shit about tens of thousands of people being wrongly fined, I didn't think you'd be able to sort it.

It's not a problem for me. I got my personal issue sorted cos I'm a persistent fecker and know what's what ... I pursued it cos what HMRC are doing is a long way from fair and reasonable.

 

I'm persistent also, and stubborn, and have successfully changed things for the better on a few occasions in the past. Twice personally, more often as a joint effort.

 

[eFestivals]

Well, I guess I have to eat my words and congratulate HMRC for managing 10 days to post & deliver a letter. Don't go getting your hopes up tho peeps, this isn't from an office that deals with the plebs, it's from the 'employer office'.

With news of a £1500 rebate.

[feral chile]

33 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

Well, I guess I have to eat my words and congratulate HMRC for managing 10 days to post & deliver a letter. Don't go getting your hopes up tho peeps, this isn't from an office that deals with the plebs, it's from the 'employer office'.

With news of a £1500 rebate.

ha! that half qualifies as happy then

[frostypaw]

Today I have been ludicrously deliriously happy - and from news on a Friday the 13th of all days - that after what has been a total rollercoaster of a few years that seemed about to end with a horrific sting in the tail that it was, best they could tell in histology, just a bladder wart and not a tumour.

Which I still barely dare say in case it was some mental dream. Hope I've not jinxed it. But plans to be back and really annoyingly bouncy are back on

[feral chile]

15 minutes ago, frostypaw said:

Today I have been ludicrously deliriously happy - and from news on a Friday the 13th of all days - that after what has been a total rollercoaster of a few years that seemed about to end with a horrific sting in the tail that it was, best they could tell in histology, just a bladder wart and not a tumour.

Which I still barely dare say in case it was some mental dream. Hope I've not jinxed it. But plans to be back and really annoyingly bouncy are back on

That's brilliant news! I'm really happy for you xx