Climate Change

[Nobody Interesting]

32 minutes ago, gizmoman said:

"I did also write "in fact some go as far as saying it does not matter if the Northern hemisphere removes all the trees as they make no difference""

 

 Yes you did but didn't actually link the quotes or who made them so it's hard to know exactly what the conversation was and the relevance, seems crazy on the face of it but quotes taken out of context are hard to judge.

 

 

"He says clearly that those in the north do nothing for climate change - which is again so very wrong."

 

He doesn't say it will do nothing, he says planting them won't "slow climate change" not the same thing, he presumably means if we keep on cutting down rainforest it won't have the effect hoped for, he may well believe we need to stop deforestation and begin replanting in the tropics, can't judge his position on a few selected quotes.

 

"On this thread there are loads more comments from 'FH', here is another one. Do you agree with him on this?"

 

A quick look at the globe would suggest the UK on it's own will have little effect due to the fact we are such a small area, so no, I don't agree it's zero but it may well be negligible in the overall picture. Again difficult to judge his position on selected quotes, you seem to have selected a few quotes to try to ridicule him, maybe he is a climate denier or maybe he is a realist who is sceptical of quick fixes that make us feel better but won't have the desired outcome, I've no idea, not seem enough of the conversation to judge.

 

Still not seen any science that compares the relative CO2 absorbing capabilities of tropical and temperate trees/areas  either so can't really tell how valid his argument is. But this is what we need, logical scientific analysis and debate, not trying to ridicule other views.

 

 

 

 

Ridicule other view - when they are utter nonsense and the person making them refuses to accept anything that says they are wring, which FH and many others do in 'denial' threads and pages is about all you can really do.
When heads are so far down the rabbit hole engaging them any longer is pointless - it is like trying to tell tRump that he did not beat Tiger Woods at golf.

Anyway, here are some links and stuff just about England but papers are available for many other countries in the Northern Hemisphere.

This first one hs a quote that says:
""The planting of trees and an end to deforestation are increasingly being highlighted as low cost and environmentally sensitive mechanisms to combat climate change. These measures have been factored into the net-zero agendas of UK and other governments, with world leaders also pledging to address the issue during COP26 in Glasgow last year."

 

https://phys.org/news/2022-01-explores-temperate-rainforests-aid-climate.html

 

Even out sceptical UK government has plans around putting back our temperate forests and they certainly are not well known for spending money without decent proof (or perhaps benefitting their friends and neighbours financially).
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/temperate-rainforest-strategy/a-plan-to-recover-englands-temperate-rainforests

There really are so very many places where info is available and such info was offered by others on the thread with FH and their refusal to accept any of it was laughable to the point of ridiculousness.
Sadly I have had to try and talk to many like this, and lots worse, over the years - there really is no talking to them - like anti maskers and covid deniers, their mind are closed to any truth regardless of who says it and what proof you offer them.

As said, I have seen pages/groups a plenty with people saying the northern hemisphere can has all trees removed and it makes no difference and they refuse any and all proof they are wrong - if you can find a way to combat that level of lack of education then please............ get involved on social media, groups, websites and public debate cos it is soul destroying to try and deal with such people especially as they are now more emboldened thanks to tRump and Reform and similar.

[steviewevie]

56 minutes ago, kerplunk said:

All the biomass on earth in one graphic

 

https://nautil.us/all-the-biomass-on-earth-238368/

 

 

I like that. If only I understood it.

[steviewevie]

I tell you what would be bad news for net zero and all that stuff...Trump winning in November.

[gizmoman]

36 minutes ago, Nobody Interesting said:

Ridicule other view - when they are utter nonsense and the person making them refuses to accept anything that says they are wring, which FH and many others do in 'denial' threads and pages is about all you can really do.
When heads are so far down the rabbit hole engaging them any longer is pointless - it is like trying to tell tRump that he did not beat Tiger Woods at golf.

Anyway, here are some links and stuff just about England but papers are available for many other countries in the Northern Hemisphere.

This first one hs a quote that says:
""The planting of trees and an end to deforestation are increasingly being highlighted as low cost and environmentally sensitive mechanisms to combat climate change. These measures have been factored into the net-zero agendas of UK and other governments, with world leaders also pledging to address the issue during COP26 in Glasgow last year."

 

https://phys.org/news/2022-01-explores-temperate-rainforests-aid-climate.html

 

Even out sceptical UK government has plans around putting back our temperate forests and they certainly are not well known for spending money without decent proof (or perhaps benefitting their friends and neighbours financially).
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/temperate-rainforest-strategy/a-plan-to-recover-englands-temperate-rainforests

There really are so very many places where info is available and such info was offered by others on the thread with FH and their refusal to accept any of it was laughable to the point of ridiculousness.
Sadly I have had to try and talk to many like this, and lots worse, over the years - there really is no talking to them - like anti maskers and covid deniers, their mind are closed to any truth regardless of who says it and what proof you offer them.

As said, I have seen pages/groups a plenty with people saying the northern hemisphere can has all trees removed and it makes no difference and they refuse any and all proof they are wrong - if you can find a way to combat that level of lack of education then please............ get involved on social media, groups, websites and public debate cos it is soul destroying to try and deal with such people especially as they are now more emboldened thanks to tRump and Reform and similar.

Neither link gives any indication as to how much benefit the reforestation will have, there will be some to be sure but whether it will be as effective as action elsewhere is unknown, so it hardly settles the argument, a bit pointless trying to have a secondhand discussion on what someone said somewhere else can you link the original BBC thread so we can see how the discussion actually went?

[kerplunk]

1 hour ago, steviewevie said:

I like that. If only I understood it.

😄

 

Well you get that living things are made of carbon right? We are 'carbon units'. The graphic shows how much carbon is 'stored' in the mass of all living things on earth.

 

It's quite sobering that the total mass of carbon in plants - the largest by far biomass reservoir on earth - is 450 gigatons.

 

By my rough back of an envelope reckoning fossil fuel emissions since the start of the industrial revolution have increased the amount of carbon in the atmosphere by about 360 gigatons and we're currently increasing it by about 6 gigatons per year.

 

We'll soon have achieved increasing the amount of carbon in the atmosphere by the same amount that's stored in all plant life on earth

 

 

 

 

Edited April 8 by kerplunk

[Nobody Interesting]

19 minutes ago, gizmoman said:

Neither link gives any indication as to how much benefit the reforestation will have, there will be some to be sure but whether it will be as effective as action elsewhere is unknown, so it hardly settles the argument, a bit pointless trying to have a secondhand discussion on what someone said somewhere else can you link the original BBC thread so we can see how the discussion actually went?

 

The discussion(s) as this person contributes to many, are on the BBC news page under 'Climate'. they enter pretty much every conversation on there posting all sorts of 'typical denier' stuff.

Just found a story, click on the comments then you have to look through all the comments and replies.

It is likely this user has 2, if not more, user names as well. FH is one F&H is another.

 

As for the links not giving any indication as to how much benefit all I can say to that is I have no idea how anyone might convince you as it is all an inexact science based on estimations from small scale projects and historical data.

These, as I said, are from England and do not represent the whole northern hemisphere.

This is  a link to more research on the northern hemisphere but to access the whole article you need and institution login in and that I no longer have. For anyone reading who might not understand "Land “plays a key role in the climate system” as an essential carbon sink because its surfaces, such as forests, regulate the planet’s temperature and help to store carbon."

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-019-1078-6

 

There is also interesting research being done by NASA:
https://climate.nasa.gov/news/2364/a-breathing-planet-off-balance/

 

There are also numerous papers on the UN website.

Anyway, I am sure from discussion so far this will likely not be enough information for you - I am not a scientist but I know a few and have total trust n what they say.................. and they say we need trees, lots of trees in the right place and that includes a huge reforestation in the northern hemisphere.

 

[steviewevie]

we need to exterminate all humans.

[gizmoman]

OK found the story and the comments,

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-68716874

 

FH was replying to this post,

 

 

"We go on about tree loss in the Amazon yet cut down millions of trees in the UK. Our wildlife is now down to 1 in 4 wildlife species close to extinction. Our biodiversity is one of the most under threat in the world."

 

His Reply,

 

"trees in the UK do 0 for climate change. it is the tropics that are important"

 

"I repeat, trees in Northern Europe and the Northern Hemisphere, do 0 to stop climate change. it is the tropics were they must grow."

 

 

and

 

"Use ECOSIA as your search engine. It plants tropical trees to replant the forests, as you search, and stop climate change. Use ecosia to help replant the forests and help it get to 1 billion trees asap"

 

 

 

So it turns out I was right about his stance, he believes we should be concentrating our efforts on the tropical forests,

"and stop climate change" hardly the words of a denier, disagreeing on the solution to the problem is not climate change denial.

 

I can see how his negative reply might annoy some but he could well be right.

 

Not heard of Ecosia before,

https://www.ecosia.org/

 will give it a try.

 

BTW looked at a couple of other stories but couldn't find him.

 

[kerplunk]

btw I often manage to find full versions of papers without an institution login by searching on the paper's title

 

https://scholar.harvard.edu/sites/scholar.harvard.edu/files/zhu/files/five_decades_of_northern_land_carbon_uptake_reveal.pdf

 

[gizmoman]

1 hour ago, kerplunk said:

btw I often manage to find full versions of papers without an institution login by searching on the paper's title

 

https://scholar.harvard.edu/sites/scholar.harvard.edu/files/zhu/files/five_decades_of_northern_land_carbon_uptake_reveal.pdf

 

That's certainly not light reading! Interesting though,

 

"This study underscores the need for a coordinated
stewardship of the northern land sink as part of the climate policy
agenda, with the objective to maintain land sinks through favourable
land use and enhance them whenever possible."

 

So maybe FH is wrong, and we do need to concentrate up north, or do both. It's certainly not as clear cut as it may appear, who knew this stuff was so complicated! If climate change over the past few decades is part of the driver of the shift in the sinks how does that factor in? if the North gets warmer and the carbon sink increases maybe that will help offset the warming and we will reach an equilibrium. (here's hoping).

[lazyred]

4 hours ago, steviewevie said:

we need to exterminate all humans.

Wouldn't that release carbon?

[lazyred]

This link concludes its better overall to preserve exisitng forests even though new trees absorn more carbon.

 

https://climate.mit.edu/ask-mit/how-many-new-trees-would-we-need-offset-our-carbon-emissions

 

[kerplunk]

11 minutes ago, lazyred said:

Wouldn't that release carbon?

 

Make that - we need to fatten up all humans

[steviewevie]

this could have big implications....

 

might take the govt to court for this sh*tty weather ruining my spring.

[gizmoman]

49 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

this could have big implications....

 

might take the govt to court for this sh*tty weather ruining my spring.

Wow, that's a crazy judgement, Switzerland is a tiny country, global warming is, well, global, even if Switzerland had implemented all these measures sooner it would have made no difference to the weather in Switzerland. Totally political judgement, no logic to it.

[steviewevie]

Only two years...sh*t man, better make the most of it.

 

[steviewevie]

 

[steviewevie]

it's all over

 

 

[Neil]

14 hours ago, steviewevie said:

it's all over

it is for Dubai, fancy building a city with no rain drainage, mad!

[steviewevie]

 

[Nobody Interesting]

1 hour ago, steviewevie said:

 

[steviewevie]

 

[lazyred]

On 4/20/2024 at 5:56 PM, steviewevie said:

 

The whole interview is worth watching. There's more than just bashing the Tories

[Nobody Interesting]

34 minutes ago, lazyred said:

The whole interview is worth watching. There's more than just bashing the Tories

Correct.

Labour are bashed as are the Lib Dems and SNP. 

I rather like it when he says they are all scared of saying anything about climate change or words like that.

[steviewevie]

so can we start blaming this cold and wet spring on La Nina?