Peter Dow

[abdoujaparov]

I'm glad you're paying such close attention to make your diagnosis'. It's proper professional that is.

I suggest you read rather than make it up from your head.

(even tho you're well practiced at that thru that psycho-bollocks. )

[abdoujaparov]

I have no idea if he has 20 years experience or not... I suppose we can only take him at face value...

What I have seen with my own eyes is the depersonalisation of suspected mental health patients and narrow mindedness of some mental health workers showing the same level of self righteousness as shown by him in this thread.

[abdoujaparov]

Would actually be helpful if abdoujaparov actually informed us what his role and qualifications are... He ducked answering the question...

[eFestivals]

I have genuinely no idea what you're on about, sorry

I was pointing out that you are not properly reading things in this thread, else you wouldn't be asking questions where that information has already been provided.

Which leads me to wonder just how safe your diagnosis is, even on your own basis. After all, if you're not paying attention but feel free to give your diagnosis on the basis of imperfect information, it's far from safe.

Much as is the norm for psycho-bollocks, you pick up on what suits you and ignore or miss the inconvenient.

[fred quimby]

In my current role I am a senior manager in a charity which, amongst other things, provides supported housing services for clients with mental health problems

Edited December 8, 2011 by fred quimby

[feral chile]

Neil, I was genuinely very interested in your theories regarding the self justification that humans do, and in my opinion there's a lot of truth in that.

You do realise that it was human psychology that you were theorising about though, don't you?

I'm surprised, though, at the knee-jerk reaction to the comments regarding mental health, as if mental health is a dirty word. All abdoujaparov has done is show a bit of concern for someone who in his opinion is vulnerable. And he's been attacked as if he'd been insinuating something unpleasant and insulting.

I think it's pretty telling as far as attitudes towards mental health go - seems like there's still a fair way to go before we stop seeing someone who might have mental health issues (1in 4) in a negative light.

[abdoujaparov]

He has been jumped n because he is making an issue out of the person and not his opinions...

[feral chile]

I haven't seen any poster look at mental health patients in a negative way...

I wouldn't want people saying I had cancer, aids, mental health issues, a broken leg, in growing tow nail etc etc based on some mickey mouse diagnoises via Internet posts... It's insulting to discuss people's medical issues in this way let alone attempt to draw conclusions...

He has been jumped n because he is making an issue out of the person and not his opinions...

[abdoujaparov]

So you aren't a doctor ? Yet you are jumping to everything but a full blown diagnoses...

[abdoujaparov]

But I don't agree that calling someone workshy, a mentalist, an idiot etc. is discussing their opinions. That's discussing a person's character, and therefore them as a person.

[abdoujaparov]

Yup

[abdoujaparov]

Great... You off now ?

[abdoujaparov]

Shouldn't you be doing a lesson plan or something...

[Ed209]

Neil, I was genuinely very interested in your theories regarding the self justification that humans do, and in my opinion there's a lot of truth in that.

You do realise that it was human psychology that you were theorising about though, don't you?

I'm surprised, though, at the knee-jerk reaction to the comments regarding mental health, as if mental health is a dirty word. All abdoujaparov has done is show a bit of concern for someone who in his opinion is vulnerable. And he's been attacked as if he'd been insinuating something unpleasant and insulting.

I think it's pretty telling as far as attitudes towards mental health go - seems like there's still a fair way to go before we stop seeing someone who might have mental health issues (1in 4) in a negative light.

[eFestivals]

Neil, I was genuinely very interested in your theories regarding the self justification that humans do, and in my opinion there's a lot of truth in that.

You do realise that it was human psychology that you were theorising about though, don't you?

yep. Although all I was actually doing was stating an observable fact.

If "human psychology" wants to steal what existed before it did and claim it as exclusively its own, it can do - while I laugh.

I'm surprised, though, at the knee-jerk reaction to the comments regarding mental health, as if mental health is a dirty word.

when "mental health" is able to tell us what "mental health" actually is - in a consistent and not laughable form - I'll be happy to pass it a tissue so it can clean itself.

All abdoujaparov has done is show a bit of concern for someone who in his opinion is vulnerable. And he's been attacked as if he'd been insinuating something unpleasant and insulting.

Vulnerable, yes. His reasoning on that? Who knows - he doesn't.

Anyone who refuses to play society's game is vulnerable to sanction by society - and labelling them as mentally ill which effects their whole person is a far bigger sanction than laughing at specific aspects of what they might say. No one is immune from their own stupidity (including all psycho-babble-ists) and being laughed at for it, but only some have their whole person sanctioned because of that on the basis of spurious ideas.

I think it's pretty telling as far as attitudes towards mental health go - seems like there's still a fair way to go before we stop seeing someone who might have mental health issues (1in 4) in a negative light.

It's something that will continue until there's a reasonable basis for the whole idea of mental health - and that's something only in the control of those who currently psycho-babble on a very weak basis.

The situation is stuck until such time that psycho-babble is sane enough itself to admit its extremely weak basis. All the while it continues to laughingly believe that it's got it nailed there can be no progress.

[eFestivals]

mental health ... You can't just pretend it doesn't exist.

why not? Such pretence is doing nothing more than 'mental health' does in the opposite direction. It pretends it has ideas and answers that it does not.

[eFestivals]

If a doctor, or any other medical professional gave "expert" opinions on someone's physical health on an online forum then that would be unethical. Mental health should be treated in the same way.

If a clinical psychiatrist or someone claiming to have expert experience in mental illness gave their opinion on the mental health of someone on a public online forum, then I would consider that to be unethical too.

You'd think so, wouldn't you?

And yet at least 103 different housing associations as well as the UK Border Agency use remote diagnosis' of people's mental health to make decisions on them and what public support they might get - with those diagnosis' being made without seeing the patient, and without any consultation with the patient's GP.

I wonder if the housing association that abdoujaparov works for is working from those?

[feral chile]

As Barry said really.

In fact I think its the opposite to how you see it, Feral. I think this is people treating mental illness on a par with physical illness.

If a doctor, or any other medical professional gave "expert" opinions on someone's physical health on an online forum then that would be unethical. Mental health should be treated in the same way.

If a clinical psychiatrist or someone claiming to have expert experience in mental illness gave their opinion on the mental health of someone on a public online forum, then I would consider that to be unethical too.

[feral chile]

You'd think so, wouldn't you?

And yet at least 103 different housing associations as well as the UK Border Agency use remote diagnosis' of people's mental health to make decisions on them and what public support they might get - with those diagnosis' being made without seeing the patient, and without any consultation with the patient's GP.

I wonder if the housing association that abdoujaparov works for is working from those?

[feral chile]

sorry double post. I seem to have quoted myself - how's that for egotism?

Edited December 9, 2011 by feral chile

[eFestivals]

Seriously? How does the process work then? Do they not seek professional guidance? How do they know someone has mental health issues?

I made a slight error in what I posted previously - it's 100 housing associations.

How does the process work? The suspicion is that it's being used as a front to deny people their housing or other legal rights.

They don't seek professional guidance beyond that remote assessor. It's done just as I said. A case is referred by UKBA or a HA, I'm not sure on what basis - but I'd guess it's because someone is demanding their legal rights and UKBA or a HA is looking for a way to not give them.

[feral chile]

why not? Such pretence is doing nothing more than 'mental health' does in the opposite direction. It pretends it has ideas and answers that it does not.

[abdoujaparov]

Vulnerable, yes. His reasoning on that? Who knows - he doesn't.

[eFestivals]

But these issues can seriously affect a person's ability to function

'Can', yes.

Are they affecting Dow in a way he doesn't want? I can't see anything of that.

(He's not getting what he wants of course, but that's something different).

[abdoujaparov]

You'd think so, wouldn't you?

And yet at least 103 different housing associations as well as the UK Border Agency use remote diagnosis' of people's mental health to make decisions on them and what public support they might get - with those diagnosis' being made without seeing the patient, and without any consultation with the patient's GP.

I wonder if the housing association that abdoujaparov works for is working from those?