Peter Dow

[sifi]

I don't see how you can defend somebody doing something wrong by telling us that other people are doing wrong. Seems to me that there are so many people with their hand out, on the take, at all both ends of the wealth spectrum, and it's the chumps in the middle who take the hit for everyone else.

Maybe I'm just sick of seeing a more than a grand's worth of money go out the window each month in tax when I work a sixty hour work week - because if I don't I'll get fired - and after you shove in a three hour commute each day I'm utterly frazzled and having got any time anymore for anything, especially apologists for what appears to be a dilusional work-shy idiot who thinks far too much of himself.

[eFestivals]

I don't see how you can defend somebody doing something wrong by telling us that other people are doing wrong. Seems to me that there are so many people with their hand out, on the take, at all both ends of the wealth spectrum, and it's the chumps in the middle who take the hit for everyone else.

Maybe I'm just sick of seeing a more than a grand's worth of money go out the window each month in tax when I work a sixty hour work week - because if I don't I'll get fired - and after you shove in a three hour commute each day I'm utterly frazzled and having got any time anymore for anything, especially apologists for what appears to be a dilusional work-shy idiot who thinks far too much of himself.

I'm simply pointing out that what Dow is doing is done by others at the rich end of the scale and for their own personal enrichment (which can't be said of Dow) - and is deemed acceptable.

I agree that it's mostly the middle that take the hit from such things - but if more people from the middle stood their ground in the face of adversity as Dow is doing then perhaps we might have a chance of changing things.

It's certainly the case that things as they're done now doesn't change things in relation to that. The fact is that they're going further in that direction by how things stand now.

You put up with your circumstances because you like the rewards it brings you or you fear losing what you have or a combination of those things - which is perhaps understandable, but it takes things nowhere towards where you'd like. At least Dow is suffering the deeply negative consequences of his choice and trying his hardest to change things, even if they're not effective.

And as he's already outlined, the situation he's got himself into for whatever reasons is a situation where there's zero incentive for him to change from any financial angle. While he's responsible for getting himself into that situation, the laws as they stand are responsible for keeping him there.

[fred quimby]

The view we have of ideas like his right now might not be how they're viewed in the future, no matter how nuts they might seem right at this moment. Only the future can show us how the view of them might change.

Edited December 7, 2011 by fred quimby

[eFestivals]

But most of his views are well know and as he alludes to are in practice already so we don't need hindsight for that. As for the Scottish issue these are well know to. and which way it all goes waits to be seen

they're not in practice in this country. It's in this country he wants to see his ideas implemented.

What we can see in hindsight is that him pissing and moaning on an internet site has not added to science as he feels he would have. FACT

the chances that anyone has to change things comes down to the opportunities that become open to them. And while you might feel he's brought it on himself, any desire he has to change things via science is denied him.

I can't be bothered to delve (again) into the reasons behind that, but it is the case that 'scientists' who try swimming against the stream in regard to science run the risk of ridicule and expulsion from 'science' for doing so. It only takes a historical glanced at science thru time to see that that's true.

He of course could have helped himself, instead of being a victim, and could have done something. Fact

Yep - but that would require him to operate with the framework for life that you accept but that he doesn't.

I've no doubt that if you were forced to operate on his framework because that's what the culture around you had set for your life, you'd buy into that no differently to how you do the framework as it is.

So which of you is the stronger? It's an interesting dilemma to consider.

And I'll wager his contribution to any change is zero. I'll be happy to come back in 20 years and be proved wrong but I get a feeling I will not.

My feelings are the same.

But along with that, I see that the wrong is no less important than the right; it's the wrong that helps find the right.

[fred quimby]

they're not in practice in this country. It's in this country he wants to see his ideas implemented.

[eFestivals]

But because we can see it happening elsewhere means we have a very good idea of what it is, it is not new ideas he is pushing here

and equal rights for blacks wasn't as new idea that Mandela was pushing, but it was a new idea for SA just as republicanism is a new idea for the UK.

And when it comes down to it (stripping the more nutty stuff out), that's a sound idea and one that certainly isn't bettered by what we have - and yet we as a country continue with what we have.

So who's the bigger nutter? Dow, or the UK's population?

Not really, these are just general life rules really.

Nope. When Dow bangs on about "the Queens justice" and the like, he's talking the truth. The whole idea of justice in this country is subverted by the rules we have, but which you see as "general life rules" because that's the only life you know of.

Moaning on an internet site doesn't move you forward to where you want to be, nowt to do with framework.

Again, nope - there's instances that prove it can work. Even the 'Arab Spring' - which started from a moan by someone on the internet that another person had felt so bad about things in Tunisia to take his own life.

Of course, the success or not is dependent on how many people you can swing behind the moan you're making. And while no one is getting behind what's Dow is saying at this moment, that says nothing about what might happen in the future. I'm sure that 'moaner' in Tunisia wasn't the first person to moan on the net about what was going on in Tunisia.

I think we could find several cases of people swimming against the tide that have acheived, a glance at science thru the years proves this to be true

and the same with politics. So who knows if Dow is wasting his time? We can only measure that at the end of his life.

As i've said, my view of Dow probably isn't much different to yours. I'm simply reserving final judgement.

[fred quimby]

As i've said, my view of Dow probably isn't much different to yours. I'm simply reserving final judgement.

Edited December 7, 2011 by fred quimby

[abdoujaparov]

what appears to be a dilusional work-shy idiot who thinks far too much of himself.

[abdoujaparov]

Possibly.., but Sifi explanation seems more likely...

[abdoujaparov]

Yeah you keep saying... Arm chair diagnoses your usal approach... ?

[abdoujaparov]

Peter doesn't feel he has a mental illness... So I am happy to deal with hm on that basis... You keep beating your attention drum though...

[abdoujaparov]

It's quite scary to me that someone would form the opinion tha someone might have a mental illness just off a couple of forum posts. He seems like a odd ball to me but mental illness never came to me.

I suppose 20 years of experience though allows you to jump to conclusions like this... Complex science clearly....

[Uncle Liam]

Someone on the best of 2011 thinks I'm full if shit, isnt that the point of the Internet?

Although we all know Dow is full of it!

[abdoujaparov]

How do I know your not full of shit ?

[abdoujaparov]

Maybe it's just you who I don't have much time for

[Ed209]

I'm not diagnosing anyone, just expressing an opinion on the basis of the facts available to me.

[abdoujaparov]

Millions of reasons...

While admitting you cant make a diagnoses over the net you are ready to tell everyone that in your professional 20 years opinion he possibly has a illness.... I personally wold expect professionals to be a bit more coy before cring wolf about such things... Talking about people's medical issues in such a open and disrespectful way,..

It's abit arrogant to deny anyone else an opinion on the subject... And you assume no one else has experience of mental illness...

[abdoujaparov]

Seriously though, after being the one who was claiming to be standing up for Peter against the bullys, all you've done is sat at your computer and continually called him mentally ill.

Way to go!

[abdoujaparov]

So what are your credentials out of interest..

[abdoujaparov]

So would you agree with this ?

One of the most controversial aspects of mental health treatment and care is the issue of diagnoses. Many professionals claim that such labels only add to the stigmatization of these illnesses, depersonalization of the individual who is suffering, and adherence to a medical theory of mental disorders which has been anything but proven

[abdoujaparov]

I was wondering what role you performed..

[Ed209]

Have I?

If you bothered to read what I've written, you'll see that I've said nothing of the sort. I've said that, on the evidence I've seen, he may have mental health problems. He may. I dont know for certain, but he certainly may.

Unlike others, I havent called him an idiot or crazy or any of the words used by others

Edited December 7, 2011 by Ed209

[abdoujaparov]

I just feel you are depersonalising Peter by talking about a mental illness you confirm is beyond you to diagnose.... You keep bringing the issue up over and over again...

Dosent feel very professnal for you to be doing it... But hey, what do i know, you are the expert...

When I post to Peter I think he has the right to be taken as he comes, as a person.... And not as a mental illness.... Or do you think we should change how we interact with him if he has a mental illness... And depersonalise him ?

I honestly for menta health care had moved on... But what do I know...

[abdoujaparov]

granted, you dumb them down a bit at the end, claiming you're not diagnosing but instead are just expressing you expert opinion - but what is psychiatric diagnosing, if its not just someone's expert opinion?

[abdoujaparov]

So what did you mean by this then ?