thought for the day... again... capitalism? dying? dead?

[eFestivals]

Don't worry, it's not hurting his finances. Or his mates'.

oh I know - that £75Bn is being given to the banks to ensure that it doesn't.

The sick thing is that the exact same effect could be achieved by giving joe public the same money to pay off their debts with the banks, but we can't have ordinary people benefiting in the same way as the bankers will. That would just be so so wrong.

[5co77ie]

So the banks have been gifted another £75Bn in exchange for worthless bits of paper, from a govt who declared how wrong it was when the last govt did similar.

Edited October 6, 2011 by 5co77ie

[worm]

eh? Where's an example of a country where the material value system is removed?

[eFestivals]

The material value system of capitalism is removed. It's removed in Brave New World, the book I was talking about.

PMSL

For someone who insists on literal accuracy from others and if he doesn't get it pretends to not understand or twists things to his own purposes, it's highly amusing that you fail so so badly yourself.

Or perhaps just post blatant lies. Because those words above do not reconcile with the previous words of yours that I made my comment on.

But it's interesting to consider the alternatives and to see that even when the material value system is removed, the ideology of capitalism remains.

Edited October 7, 2011 by eFestivals

[5co77ie]

Mr Osborne had said in 2009, when he had been in opposition, that "printing money is the last resort of desperate governments when all other policies have failed".

[5co77ie]

As Billy Bragg said last night on Question Time - can't the Bank Of England just give each and everyone of us £4,000 to spend how we like instead of handing it over to the banks where we'll never see it.

[fred quimby]

As Billy Bragg said last night on Question Time - can't the Bank Of England just give each and everyone of us £4,000 to spend how we like instead of handing it over to the banks where we'll never see it.

[kaosmark2]

So this.

I understand giving some to lend to small business to help them grow but I reckon if they gave everyone the money things would move, plus debts would be removed (which is what our Dave wants).

Mind you I bet it would cost a bomb to administer instead of just buying bonds with it.

[fred quimby]

Which would still be doing something with money other than giving it to the banks.

[kaosmark2]

Oh no doubt. Just a nightmare how you go about doing it.

Obviously you (the government) don't want to give ordinary people the money and I've always said this would be a great idea (more than £4000 than Billy says, we could all be millionaires). Just how would you do it, they are not printing money so how do you give it to everyone

[Purple Monkey]

Watch this immediately

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PNRVRbpJMP0

Again - pretty sure who will and who won't.

[fred quimby]

How do you go about giving £75bn to the banks?

[Purple Monkey]

Just clicked play... 43 mins... Some of us have jobs you know... Can you cut it down into a paragraph

[Ed209]

Just clicked play... 43 mins... Some of us have jobs you know... Can you cut it down into a paragraph

[abdoujaparov]

... you obviously work very hard and have no spare time at all ....

[Purple Monkey]

First rule of any game - eventually the game ends, and all the pieces go back in the box. Even long boring ones like Monopoly.

Oh yeah - watch this video, it's much shorter, delivers a bigger punch, get's the point across pretty quickly.

Barry Fish - how long will you continue to ignore what's happening around you?

Edited October 11, 2011 by Purple Monkey

[eFestivals]

Oh yeah - watch this video, it's much shorter, delivers a bigger punch, get's the point across pretty quickly.

hmmmm .... what point is he actually making?

I get the impression that he wants to pull up the drawbridge on the USA from that, rather than actually having a realistic answer to anything.

Pulling up the drawbridge - protectionism - would be as big a failure as anything he's ranting against. And perhaps bigger, because the USA's economy is based on the exploitation of other countries which doesn't work in the 'global age' or when the USA has little to offer the world that's not available from elsewhere.

[eFestivals]

if the demonstrations that are happening in New York/Wall Street and across America, were happening in (for example) a Middle East country, we'd be hailing it as the beginnings of a democratic rising, and with not too much of a push, 'we' might end up bombing the place to encourage the 'uprising'.....

yup .... but because they're happening in America, they're mostly being wrongly presented as "anti capitalist" protests, rather than the anti-banker/anti-corporate greed protests that they really are.

[abdoujaparov]

Oh I get the change... I just don't think the end result will be as dramatic as you think it will be... and when it comes I will position myself then...

[eFestivals]

So, tell me, just how are you "positioning yourself" for the complete collapse of consumerist capitalism? Because that is what is going to happen as we run out, in your lifetime, of critical natural resources...oil, phosphates, water...

do you really believe that the fact that you've put a few bob in the bank will make any difference at all?

To be fair to him, there's naff all that any of can really do except accept what's coming when it does come.

After all, while the likes of you and I might be mentally prepared for a massive change, it's not going to do us a huge lot of good at that time. Unless you live self-sufficiently on a heavily fortified island, anyway.

It won't even be those types that pick up power at that point, cos the sheep will look for a shepherd they know even if that shepherd is shepherding them to the abattoir.

Edited October 11, 2011 by eFestivals

[worm]

To be fair to him, there's naff all that any of can really do except accept what's coming when it does come.

After all, while the likes of you and I might be mentally prepared for a massive change, it's not going to do us a huge lot of good at that time. Unless you live self-sufficiently on a heavily fortified island, anyway.

It won't even be those types that pick up power at that point, cos the sheep will look for a shepherd they know even if that shepherd is shepherding them to the abattoir.

[abdoujaparov]

To be fair to him, there's naff all that any of can really do except accept what's coming when it does come.

After all, while the likes of you and I might be mentally prepared for a massive change, it's not going to do us a huge lot of good at that time. Unless you live self-sufficiently on a heavily fortified island, anyway.

It won't even be those types that pick up power at that point, cos the sheep will look for a shepherd they know even if that shepherd is shepherding them to the abattoir.

[worm]

Of course, there's very little that anyone can do to prepare for the kind of conflict that's likely to come over natural resources

[worm]

And surely the money being plunged into cosmetics will be reassigned to more essential sciences should that day ever come. I think the main problem is that the money being driven by consumerism is in turn driven by the west, a culture so blatently divorced from the reality of global cause and effect.

[abdoujaparov]

Could you perhaps expand upon this point about natural resources?

As far as I'm aware, technology is making natural resources ever more efficient and the great 'in vitro' experiment is ticking along nicely. Soon we'll have little need for farm land due to meat grown in a lab, which is reported to be the cause of 30% of world poverty. There's many other examples, some more obvious than others.

So surely it's the resources of science and technology that will be the cause of conflict, not natural resources?