Football 2011-2012

[kaosmark2]

Yeah, but unlike the opinions of Reina the ones of Lumpard are marmite.

The thing is, who is the best in English football "at the moment" varies week-to-week dependant on what saves they make and who else messes up. Rob Green was the best once ... till the next match.

We could argue over who we each thought was the best, but of those currently playing in England and using the consistency across a number of seasons as the benchmark (as suggested by pinbk triangle) Reina is there or thereabouts.

[kaosmark2]

Consistent? I'm amazed. Unless people are referring to him making mistakes fairly consistently? Albeit, to be fair, making many good saves in between.

Check out the gaffes he has made in the last year or so against Tottenham, my team, Steau, Argentina, Arsenal. Mistakes I wouldn't expect a division 4 keeper to make.

[eFestivals]

Uh, he's referring to Beckham, not fat Frank.

lol - so he is. After a re-read of what he's posted I can see that now.

From posts in the past I know that TGT doesn't have a great opinion of Lumpard so from scanning what he'd said I presumed it was more of the same. Whoops.

But Beckham. Well yeah .... lots of us have known that forever.

What gets me about him at the moment is Psycho banging on about he wants him in the Olympics team. When there can only be 3 over-23 players (or whatever it is), wft would any manager want Beckham? Even after discounting the players that might go to the Euros, there's loads who'd be far better.

Since VDS's retirement and Given's ostracisation by City, Reina's the only long-established keeper that's actually seriously good. Szczesny, Krul, Begovic, Vorm have all had good seasons so far, but not are particularly established. Hart had that wonderful season at Birmingham, and a good few months for City, but seems to have been in decline (certainly IMO). De Gea's not a guaranteed choice for Man U (Lindegaard looks better from what I've seen of each, though both seem quite good), Cech's been fucking awful for at least 2 years. I just can't see who else has any level of consistency that's actually decent.

I agree with that - tho I have to say that De Gea is starting to look pretty damned good after a shaky start.

[TheGayTent]

Rob Green was the best once ... till the next match.

[kaosmark2]

lol - so he is. After a re-read of what he's posted I can see that now.

From posts in the past I know that TGT doesn't have a great opinion of Lumpard so from scanning what he'd said I presumed it was more of the same. Whoops.

But Beckham. Well yeah .... lots of us have known that forever.

What gets me about him at the moment is Psycho banging on about he wants him in the Olympics team. When there can only be 3 over-23 players (or whatever it is), wft would any manager want Beckham? Even after discounting the players that might go to the Euros, there's loads who'd be far better.

[TheGayTent]

I think the difference between Reina and Carson or Green is that he atones for a gaffe very quickly with a cracking save, and carries on effectively in the following games. He makes some incredible mistakes, but his overall form doesn't seem to dip. Cech on the other hand, still manages to make some incredible saves, but can't maintain form at all atm.

[TheGayTent]

From posts in the past I know that TGT doesn't have a great opinion of Lumpard so from scanning what he'd said I presumed it was more of the same. Whoops.

[eFestivals]

Bearing in mind goalkeepers tend not to peak til their 30s, there's every chance Hart could become a true 'great'.

while I'm not particularly disagreeing with that, much the same could have been said - and was - about Carson, Green, Kirkland, & Foster.

[kaosmark2]

Agree with what you're saying to an extent with regard to the fact that it doesn't seem to effect his confidence. However, I'd suggest that he has made more bad mistakes in the last, say, 5 seasons than Given, Friedel, VDS etc.

I also think people are doing Hart a disservice too. Goalkeeping in this country, and in general has got worse in the last 20 years, even accounting for the modern football. Hart is the first one that has excited me in a long long time. Bearing in mind goalkeepers tend not to peak til their 30s, there's every chance Hart could become a true 'great'.

[eFestivals]

I haven't a great opinion of him as a man, I don't think I've ever stated he's a poor footballer.

I, am sure I have commentated on his performances at European club level and international level, against his top flight form mind...

I can't remember you saying anything as extreme as poor, tho you've made comments about him being over-rated on a number of occasions (possibly all relating to playing for England rather than for club, I can't remember the exact details of each)

[kaosmark2]

I can't remember you saying anything as extreme as poor, tho you've made comments about him being over-rated on a number of occasions (possibly all relating to playing for England rather than for club, I can't remember the exact details of each)

[TheGayTent]

while I'm not particularly disagreeing with that, much the same could have been said - and was - about Carson, Green, Kirkland, & Foster.

[eFestivals]

Well he is overrated. His 'incredible goals tally from midfield' is partially due to a tendency to take pot shots. I'm sure I saw a statistic along the lines of most shots off target by any midfielder in Europe once.

I don't disagree at all.

Tho it should perhaps be noted that Chelsea's slide has coincided with his own, and that when he had that huge run of uninterupted games Chelsea were consistently good - tho both of those things could well be down to other factors.

[kaosmark2]

I don't disagree at all.

Tho it should perhaps be noted that Chelsea's slide has coincided with his own, and that when he had that huge run of uninterupted games Chelsea were consistently good - tho both of those things could well be down to other factors.

[ralph250]

De Gea's not a guaranteed choice for Man U (Lindegaard looks better from what I've seen of each, though both seem quite good),

[kaosmark2]

Think De Gea's undoubted no1 and will start tomorrow, but Fergie needs to give Lindegaard games in case anything happens to De Gea in terms of injury.

Lindegaard's 27 but really very green in experience. He hardly played until he got his move to Aalesund when he was 24/25, and the Norwegian league's hardly the highest level. Then arrived last winter, but got injured for a few months not long after and didn't play a league game. Just the FA Cup games against Crawley and Southampton. This year Fergie's given him 3 league games (Norwich, Sunderland and Villa) and 2 CL games (Otelul and the opening game against Benfica), and that's the extent of his top level experience really: 5 games. De Gea's only 21 but more experienced at the top level, having been Atletico's first choice for 2 seasons, winning the Europa Cup and Super Cup. Won the u21 European Championships with Spain this summer too.

I think Lindegaards inexperience is part of the reason why Kuszczak's still at the club. Whilst he's been phased out, I think Fergie's kept him on for his final year just for the experience in case the others needed a longer bedding in period. Kind of thing thats no doubt disappointing for the player, but Fergie's prerogative to keep him at the club and see him to the end of his contract really.

I think Lindegaard's done really well when given his opportunities, no real mistakes, looked solid on crosses, has a confidence about him but I think it's best to be slightly cautious as I really don't think he's been tested much either; For their league games ESPN has 6 saves in his 3 games, compared to De Gea's 50 saves in 11.

Personal opinion is that De Gea will have a lot more upside to his game.

[thetime]

Suarez old school?

Biting someone's ear and getting long ban.

Alleged racist comments.

Diving worse than nani.

Finger signs.

Disregard for team mates.

[kaosmark2]

Suarez old school?

Diving worse than nani.

[ralph250]

_{Haven't Chelsea already meant to have got Cech's replacement with Courtois who they bought in the summer for around £8m? Atletico got him on loan for next 2 seasons as replacement for De Gea. I've not watched him yet but meant to be pretty highly rated. Don't think one of his first interviews with Spanish radio would've gone down too well at the club mind when he said that Chelsea's GK coach had told him Cech was gonna be finished in a couple of years and has knee and back problems, and so they sent him on loan to mature and gain experience. Shame regards Cech if true. Only 29 now, and was outstanding prior to Hunt. Not been the same since.}

_{And controversial maybe...Given. I've always had question marks over him being in the top level in the prem. Unbelievable shotstopper in his prime, but very much on the line keeper. Great at what he did well, and pretty consistent, saved Newcastle's behinds plenty of times, but never really commanded his box. And perhaps unfair but had numerous different defensive backlines in front of him over the years yet Newcastle would nearly always concede chance after chance after chance, that does that reflect on his organisational ability? Didn't exactly shine at City either.}

[kaosmark2]

_{Haven't Chelsea already meant to have got Cech's replacement with Courtois who they bought in the summer for around £8m? Atletico got him on loan for next 2 seasons as replacement for De Gea. I've not watched him yet but meant to be pretty highly rated. Don't think one of his first interviews with Spanish radio would've gone down too well at the club mind when he said that Chelsea's GK coach had told him Cech was gonna be finished in a couple of years and has knee and back problems, and so they sent him on loan to mature and gain experience. Shame regards Cech if true. Only 29 now, and was outstanding prior to Hunt. Not been the same since.}

_{And controversial maybe...Given. I've always had question marks over him being in the top level in the prem. Unbelievable shotstopper in his prime, but very much on the line keeper. Great at what he did well, and pretty consistent, saved Newcastle's behinds plenty of times, but never really commanded his box. And perhaps unfair but had numerous different defensive backlines in front of him over the years yet Newcastle would nearly always concede chance after chance after chance, that does that reflect on his organisational ability? Didn't exactly shine at City either.}

[kaosmark2]

So much for Chelski hilariously failing to get through the Champs Lge, scored already.

[ralph250]

I agree that De Gea's got more potential, but Lindegaard looks a lot more solid right now, from what I've seen of each.

Edited December 6, 2011 by ralph250

[kaosmark2]

_{Lindegaard has been solid, he hasn't made a real mistake that I can recall other than a poor clearance in one game (Otelul iirc) that fell to an opposition striker 30-35 yards out. De Gea's been excellent in recent weeks mind, and the Benfica clearance (wasn't the best backpass from Jones mind) was his first major mistake in a while. Not too concerned about that though, as similarly to Rangel misplacing the pass to Giggs in our game against Swansea, we'll benefit far more from playing it out from the back than constantly kicking it into touch, and we still should've defended the situation better than we did imo. Trying to build attacks, sometimes will make a mistake and get punished but overall it'll benefit the team. Distributions one of his main strengths aswell.}

_{Crosses are still the main thing I feel he needs to work on, though been hugely improved in recent weeks, and should improve further. Can't recall him flapping at one for a while, which he had problems with initially. Caught when he's been able to catch and punched when he's needed to punch. He'll be on a program to strengthen up a bit too, so that should hopefully give him more presence and confidence to come out and claim. Learning English will help too.}

_{Going from someone with the experience and quality of VDS who hardly made any mistakes at all last year, to a 21 yr old was always going to have a bedding in period and said before the season started that he'll make the odd mistake here and there as learning on the job, but I think he's shown excellent mental fortitude to recover from his start and the media bashing that he was subjected to. Could've broken a lot of players.}

_{The best compliment I can pay him really is that, even though he's 21 which is absolute kid terms in goalkeeping years, I'm relaxed when I see his name on the teamsheet, and its a notion shared by pretty much everyone on Redcafe. Fair few think he's probably been our best player this season so far, which isn't an outlandish statement really given most haven't had particularly sustained form and that he's pulled off some crucial stops..}

_{Now watch him chuck one in tomorrow to knock us out of the CL.}

[ralph250]

Surely the best player this season has been Jones?

Edited December 6, 2011 by ralph250

[ralph250]

I really disagree with that. I don't think he dives that much. I think he gets fouls undeservedly not given more often than undeservedly given.