Alternative Vote

[doogie]

I've just received my postal voting papers, and need to make a swift decision as I'm off on holiday soon.

I can't think of any substantial reason why the Alternative Vote isn't a good thing, but can anyone convince me otherwise?

Ironically, the ballot paper doesn't allow a second choice.

[ampersand]

ripped up my paper. don't know what i'm voting for so would be silly to

[llcoolphil]

I've just received my postal voting papers, and need to make a swift decision as I'm off on holiday soon.

I can't think of any substantial reason why the Alternative Vote isn't a good thing, but can anyone convince me otherwise?

Ironically, the ballot paper doesn't allow a second choice.

[Snufflebutt]

The more I read up on it the more I realise its neither a good nor a bad thing - it'll make little difference to the outcome of elections.

[treacle]

I'm in the yes to AV camp. PR is the ultimate goal though.

We've had a minority government in the Scottish Paliament and it's made for some interesting debate as the politicians have had to compromise to get bills through. It's been great to see them actually do what they are supposed to do rather than bulldose the policies through because they have more bodies on their side of the house. If Clegg & co hadn't have wanted the power so badly they could have gone down this route, had significant influence in Westminster and kept their heads held high by not entering a coalition with the devil :angry:

[bunique]

ripped up my paper. don't know what i'm voting for so would be silly to

[bunique]

I have no interest in anything which "rewards" the Libs for what they are doing at the moment. So will be voting No...

[worm]

Why not educate yourself about it, like everyone else has to?

[eFestivals]

Do they? Did teacher say?

I just don't f**king care. I've tried to have a bash at this macro politics malarky, approaching it from various angles, but I'm a product of my time I'm afraid. Disenfranchised, dissaffected, politically fractured and dissident. It's just a bunch of unrepresentative elites seeking power ties with big businesses in marginally different coloured suits.

I'm interested in ground level politics mind. I'm all for DIY.

Brilliant - you think the answer to feeling disenfranchised is to disenfranchise yourself.

You couldn't make it up. For a change.

[Alcatraz]

That seems a bit short-sighted. Labour's official line is Yes to AV.

[eFestivals]

I have to laugh at Dave Moron saying that AV is barely used anywhere, undemocratic and an awful system.

Firstly, if it's so bad, why does the tory party use it for some internal elections?

Secondly, it's used far more widely than he claims - tho not necessarily in a single voting process as it would be used for elections in the UK.

And thirdly, democracy is the will of the people, not his to dictate. So if AV is chosen by the people then it's their democratic choice.

And finally, if democracy is his major concern, why hasn't he allowed the people to choose from all options for a voting method? Why hasn't he allowed the people to vote for PR as well as for AV? He's only allowed a vote on AV cos he thinks he can win it; he's not allowed a vote on PR cos he thinks he'd lose it.

In a democracy, it's the people's choice for what democratic system to use, not his to allow or disallow.

Edited April 13, 2011 by eFestivals

[bunique]

By 'official', I meant Leader's line - it was 5am, give me a break!

I just think it's a bit childish to say "don't know what I'm voting for so won't bother"

[worm]

Brilliant - you think the answer to feeling disenfranchised is to disenfranchise yourself.

Edited April 13, 2011 by worm

[eFestivals]

Disenfranchisement is a state, not a feeling.

yep, a self-imposted state in this instance.

[Snufflebutt]

Secondly, it's used far more widely than he claims - tho not necessarily in a single voting process as it would be used for elections in the UK.

[worm]

yep, a self-imposed state in this instance.

[eFestivals]

The UK, more than any other country has adjusted through the years, developing the way it elects its politicians, starting with the Reform Act of 1832, which started to recognise electorally the changes brought about by the Industrial Revolution.

while we might have had the biggest number of changes, those changes have brought about the smallest change. The UK is the most backwards democracy in the world.

We still have an unelected chamber which has a veto over all policy from the elected chamber.

We are the only democracy in the world to never have carried out land reform. Even most dictatorships have done that.

Until a few years ago, we were 'subjects' and not 'citizens'. Even now, the only change is with the name, all the same things still apply.

We are still serfs, and Dave Moron wants to keep it that way.

[llcoolphil]

I'm involved with the Yes campaign up my way. Changing the outcome of the elections isn't the purpose of a move to AV. Making more people's votes' count is, which is what AV will do. Yeah, I'd rather have PR but AV is a step in the right direction. I can't think of a decent reason for keeping FPTP that doesn't have something to do with blatant self interest on the part of those wanting to keep it.

[Ed209]

I have no interest in anything which "rewards" the Libs for what they are doing at the moment. So will be voting No...

[Ed209]

Meh.. You will get over it...

[worm]

That's petty, and makes absolutely no sense.

You're recklessly voting just to spite the Libs. And worse than that, in the process you'll be rewarding the Tories, who have a far bigger influence on what's going on at the moment.

that's so dumb

[Ed209]

'I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it' - Voltaire

He can vote however he likes.

[Ed209]

I wouldn't swap salaries with you though

[llcoolphil]

That's petty, and makes absolutely no sense.

You're recklessly voting just to spite the Libs. And worse than that, in the process you'll be rewarding the Tories, who have a far bigger influence on what's going on at the moment.

that's so dumb

[llcoolphil]

and I shall... Vote no and keep the Libs down where they belong