Depression - TalkSport Diagnosis

[feral chile]

I got into a very heated debate over whether medication should be prescribed in many cases if depression is reactive. If someone is showing the symptoms of depression due to financial worries, is medication the answer. My argument was that maybe sometimes depressive symptoms (not depression) may be a natural state for us. I was then called a callous bastard when I mentioned that in many cases of grief and loss maybe the person should be working through the issue, and embrace the emotions, and medication should be a last resort.

[feral chile]

To lighten the mood a sec, that reminds me of "The Builders" episode of Fawlty Towers

Mr O'Reilly - Now Mr Fawlty, there always somebody worse than you

Basil - Well i'd like to meet him, I could do with a laugh

Having had both of my parents suffer with depression, and some other family members too, I did a psychology A level a few years ago now to try and gain a bit more of an understanding of what they'd been through, and what I might be able to do in the future if they relapse. I never realised that people are genetically pre-disposed to depression, a fairly worrying discovery for me given my family history. It should be taught in school and discussed at work places, maybe helping people to avoid the worst effects later in life.

Edited April 1, 2011 by feral chile

[worm]

When what we should be doing is providing support. A sympathetic shoulder is worth more than a whole pharmacy.

Edited April 1, 2011 by worm

[feral chile]

Not to everyone Feral. Some people just want to be left alone to get on with it.

It's ironic that you speak of the inherent wrong-doing of symptomising and thus treating unhappiness, and then use the exact same methodology as an alternative.

Surely you believe that the wrong-doing is the use of medicine and not the process of symptomising and treating?

[worm]

If a single mum living in a tower block can't cope with her life, if a person is finding it difficult to cope with the loss of a loved one, are they ill? Or unhappy?

Edited April 1, 2011 by worm

[feral chile]

They're social problems. I would suggest that they are perfectly sound responses to the situation. I'd also suggest therapy as an adequate solution, perhaps involving drugs.

I was talking specifically about depression though. The being perfectly able to cope with life, but being completely indifferent to the outcome. The fascination with emotional states, rather than what brings them about. Being emotionally detached from situations and being ambivalent to people's emotional engagement: seeing them both as blessed and pathetic. I mean the mental state of what society has labelled a depressive.

What I'd honestly like to know is why society calls this state of being depressive and attempts to medicate it out of existence. To me, this is a perfectly logical state of being. Anything else is simply an investment in an absurd existence that makes no sense, indulging the ego and the opinions of others as grounding principles. But then, I suffer from depression.

Edited April 1, 2011 by feral chile

[worm]

Yeah, when I studied psychology I learnt that depressed people are more realistic. But it was unclear whether they were more realistic as a result of depression, or whether being more realistic made people depressed.

[Rufus Gwertigan]

oh, and I know what you mean about getting labelled as depressed when you don't feel depressed. As I've said, I think it's because of the fix-it nature of society - if someone doesn't seem happy, society can't handle it.

Just about everyone I know suffers from depression - I'm starting to get a complex about it (I'm not completely joking, either).

[worm]

I think it is just because people don't like to see others in distress. I went to a festival the other year and I was at the cusp of a depressive episode. Some showed genuine concern as they had never seen me like that before, yet others were very uncomfortable with the situation. Now this may sound odd but I was quite happy in myself as far as I could be. But I have a way of dealing with things that makes others uncomfortable for some reason. It's difficult to explain to a group that you may want to sit on the periphery to be around people but you don't want to be part of the group as such.

Friends have had to get used to my openness as well. I am very frank about how I am feeling at the time, and will say to people that I am having suicide ideation or feelings of self harm. To me it is an important strategy to recognise those thoughts and to explain to people the reason why I am a litle crabby. (Little is too small a word really). But people want to come to the rescue as they feel I am "crying for help". Trying to get through to them that I understand my depression better than them is the hard part, and that can often leave me to just f**k off on my own.

Edited April 2, 2011 by worm

[feral chile]

I think it is just because people don't like to see others in distress. I went to a festival the other year and I was at the cusp of a depressive episode. Some showed genuine concern as they had never seen me like that before, yet others were very uncomfortable with the situation. Now this may sound odd but I was quite happy in myself as far as I could be. But I have a way of dealing with things that makes others uncomfortable for some reason. It's difficult to explain to a group that you may want to sit on the periphery to be around people but you don't want to be part of the group as such.

Friends have had to get used to my openness as well. I am very frank about how I am feeling at the time, and will say to people that I am having suicide ideation or feelings of self harm. To me it is an important strategy to recognise those thoughts and to explain to people the reason why I am a litle crabby. (Little is too small a word really). But people want to come to the rescue as they feel I am "crying for help". Trying to get through to them that I understand my depression better than them is the hard part, and that can often leave me to just f**k off on my own.

Edited April 2, 2011 by feral chile

[worm]

yeah, even after suffering from depression myself, I find it difficult to know the best thing to do for friends. One friend seems to want to retreat from all social contact, and I'm always worried that if I ring her, it'll seem like hassle. She never really talks about how she feels.

[Rufus Gwertigan]

yeah, even after suffering from depression myself, I find it difficult to know the best thing to do for friends. One friend seems to want to retreat from all social contact, and I'm always worried that if I ring her, it'll seem like hassle. She never really talks about how she feels.

I'm also very aware that if you're feeling paranoid, even well meaning gestures of concern can appear intensely threatening.

In fact, i think my own experiences may be hindering, rather than helping, because I'm trying to remember how it felt for me. But we're not one and the same, and her experience will be unique to her.

[Rufus Gwertigan]

I detest being asked how I feel. Being asked how I'm doing is no problem, because it makes the condition part of the trevails of live that you have to overcome.

I find it patronising, personally.

[worm]

I find it uncomfortable. But then I have very few friends so I know a gesture is genuine.

lol. I was just thinking on your comment on been asked how you feel. We us the greeting "Al'right" around here, and I answer honestly. "No, I'm not, but thanks for asking. Are you ok?". To start off with it threw a lot of folk off, but over the years they have said that they appreciate honesty

[feral chile]

I detest being asked how I feel. Being asked how I'm doing is no problem, because it makes the condition part of the trevails of live that you have to overcome.

I find it patronising, personally.

Edited April 2, 2011 by feral chile

[Rufus Gwertigan]

Just thought I would bring this up again. I have just gone through a really bad winter, lots of crying and wanting to self harm. Was feeling great, then bang right back down. Then today I was banging my Leylandii with a stick to get rid of the non existent red squirrels.

End ex; When it comes to a mental illness I really wish I had a cool one.

[Yoghurt on a Stick]

Just thought I would bring this up again. I have just gone through a really bad winter, lots of crying and wanting to self harm. Was feeling great, then bang right back down. Then today I was banging my Leylandii with a stick to get rid of the non existent red squirrels.

End ex; When it comes to a mental illness I really wish I had a cool one.

[feral chile]

I suffer from something like bipolar but without the mood swings - I want to hibernate all winter and get manic in the summer. So I get people thinking I'm antisocial in winter because i forget to interact, then irritate people in summer because nobody can shut me up. I don't tend to suffer from the depression side of it, but I can get very anxious at times.

rufus - what have you got against squirrels?

Edited April 12, 2012 by feral chile

[kaosmark2]

Depression sucks.

And the lack of treatment available for it sucks.

Since I admitted I had a major problem with depression, I've spent 7 years being bounced around different places, not provided any long-term counselling and just repeatedly been offerred drugs despite the fact I've stated repeatedly I don't want them. I get a (new) counsellor for six weeks whenever I start getting suicidal tendancies, but because I'm still sort of functioning and sort of getting on with life I'm told I'm not a priority and they can't provide long-term treatment.

I can't afford private therapy, wasn't covered when I had private health insurance, my parents refuse to pay for it, telling me to get over myself and stop blaming them for all my problems.

Thank fuck I've got good friends who put up with me being a whiny bitch (my words not theirs), but the whole of society's attitude to it is disgraceful. The only place I've got a vaguely helpful response was at uni, although I've also been told to drop out and come back when I got better, which was never going to work.

It's all complete w*nk. The only people who continue to treat you like a real human being after you've admitted are either trained counsellors (and even many of them don't), or friends who go through similar crap. Others treat you like a moron/weak person/selfish twat/with patronising sympathy/ignorance and all manner of retarded attitudes. I don't know what's worse, disdainful comments telling me to get over myself, or overbearing exaggerated care patronisingly pointing out all the meaningless crap I've got in my life that's meant to make me feel better.

So to summarise:

Depression sucks.

[Rufus Gwertigan]

rufus - what have you got against squirrels?

[Rufus Gwertigan]

Depression sucks.

And the lack of treatment available for it sucks.

Since I admitted I had a major problem with depression, I've spent 7 years being bounced around different places, not provided any long-term counselling and just repeatedly been offerred drugs despite the fact I've stated repeatedly I don't want them. I get a (new) counsellor for six weeks whenever I start getting suicidal tendancies, but because I'm still sort of functioning and sort of getting on with life I'm told I'm not a priority and they can't provide long-term treatment.

I can't afford private therapy, wasn't covered when I had private health insurance, my parents refuse to pay for it, telling me to get over myself and stop blaming them for all my problems.

Thank fuck I've got good friends who put up with me being a whiny bitch (my words not theirs), but the whole of society's attitude to it is disgraceful. The only place I've got a vaguely helpful response was at uni, although I've also been told to drop out and come back when I got better, which was never going to work.

It's all complete w*nk. The only people who continue to treat you like a real human being after you've admitted are either trained counsellors (and even many of them don't), or friends who go through similar crap. Others treat you like a moron/weak person/selfish twat/with patronising sympathy/ignorance and all manner of retarded attitudes. I don't know what's worse, disdainful comments telling me to get over myself, or overbearing exaggerated care patronisingly pointing out all the meaningless crap I've got in my life that's meant to make me feel better.

So to summarise:

Depression sucks.

[rachbon]

Depression sucks.

And the lack of treatment available for it sucks.

[Yoghurt on a Stick]

I was after help for years , wanting doctors to refer me to a psychiatrist or even a psychologist. Basically I didn't know who I needed but just knew there had to be some professional that could help. Nothing happened for years and then I made a serious attempt at taking my own life. After initial emergency medical intervention they were then falling over themselves to get me to a psychiatrist. It is a sad state of affairs when the right services are only offered after something dramatic happens. Other than that your just left floating in the systems waiting list not getting anywhere.

As an aside the psychiatrists (It was rarely the same person I saw - which also left me with little faith in the system) didn't do anything to help other than give me diazepam to calm me down. I must admit as chemical cosh's go it was rather pleasant. However when they stopped giving me the diazepam I was straight back to square one. I then flipped and demanded to see a psychologist. I had to make such a nuisance of myself that they eventually gave in. Even then I was told it would take about 6 months before they could see me! You shouldn't have to fight to get treated, especially when your in a state where there's virtually no fight in you.

[kaosmark2]

i would say something reassuring but I cant be arsed.

There is real help but you have to stick with it.

I have an odd shaped form of bi polar which leaves my base mood as depressed. It has taken me my whole adult life to get used to it. 3 of my kids live with me and although they dont understand they are there with a much needed hug when I need one. It still worries them to find me crying on my own but hey hum.

I have few friends now as I cant cope with it. The odd thing about me though is that I am always smiling or making a joke. I grumble a lot but in a Homer Simpson way (bloody kids eating my food and breathing my air),

But to cut to the chase I have accepted who I am. To me I am normal. I dont think I have a condition any more I just have a different way of being. I have met many efesters and although I think I have made a good impression and they have enjoyed my company I dont really care. I am me for sad or glad but mainly sad, but put I squirrel in the mix and I am glad.

But I big change for me a couple of years back was discovering mdma. I have manias which are rare and can be aggressive but can you imagine taking a pill when you are depressed all the time. The rush is 10 fold to that of a straight person. I worked at over 60 festivals off my face and no one noticed as I was probably at a mood which is their norm. But it really helped me square things with myself. My mum killed herself a few years back. I sat in a festival field in the dark with a friend after litter picking (fest had finished) I was off my tree as was he. I told him about my mum and the abuse and sat and cried. Woke up the next day with a sheep looking at me but all the years of pain had gone.

I really hope things get better for you and you find a way that suits you :-)

[kaosmark2]

In my experience, there hasn't been enough or the right type of treatment available.

I've left the doctors surgery feeling worse because some doctors have been really unhelpful and it felt like they didn't recognise how severe my depression was.

A doctor sent me on my way with a prescription for anti depressants once, when I told her I was feeling suicidal. She didn't seem the slightest bit concerned that I felt suicidal every day.

I was also taken off the waiting list to see a counsellor because they could only offer appointments during the day, I told them not to book a daytime appointment for me because I could only attend evening appointments, but they sent me a letter with a daytime appointment anyway and when I tried to call to cancel it the number on their letter wasn't working. So I was taken off the waiting list for not attending an appointment that I didn't ask for and had no way of cancelling. I was hysterical when I received the letter telling me I had been taken off the list, I really felt like they had let me down and that they did it on purpose because they knew I would have felt too weak to fight back.

I don't think there is enough support or understanding. It's really hard living with depression when you feel desperate for help but it seems difficult or even impossible to get any.