Selfish Ungrateful People

[Harsim]

I dont deny EMA or JSA do benefit some people who use it legitimatly for what its used for.

In response to your question, yes i do believe EMA and JSA should be removed. Then a noodle dance performed in order to consider new ideas in which are less exploitable, and the money is funding and supporting people who genuinly need it.

@sifi

Funny you should say that as i worked as a supervisor in a call centre for 3 years before university. Had to have some way to fund glastonbury each year.

Edited January 10, 2011 by Harsim

[eFestivals]

I dont deny EMA or JSA do benefit some people who use it legitimatly for what its used for.

In response to your question, yes i do believe EMA and JSA should be removed. Then a noodle dance performed in order to consider new ideas in which are less exploitable, and the money is funding and supporting people who genuinly need it.

ahhh, that's good a good idea - let the people starve, while someone who is cleverer than you works out a way that only the genuine unemployed get benefits.

The thing is, what makes someone genuinely unemployed? The dictionary tells me that all it takes is for someone to not have a job.

[worm]

In response to your question, yes i do believe EMA and JSA should be removed. Then a noodle dance performed in order to consider new ideas in which are less exploitable, and the money is funding and supporting people who genuinly need it.

[eFestivals]

Funny you should say that as i worked as a supervisor in a call centre for 3 years before university.

that's handy - it means you have the experience you'll need for the job you'll have after university.

[sifi]

How is it being exploited?

Edited January 10, 2011 by sifi

[Harsim]

that's handy - it means you have the experience you'll need for the job you'll have after university.

[gemstarrr]

it always does amaze me how ignorant and selfish some people are.

nearly fell out with a good friend last week over a discussion on student fees.

she was for them going up because 'it will mean less people will go to university. too many people are going.'

on me pointing out that they aren't cutting uni places and it will just mean poor people won't be able to go, she didn't seem to care.

this is a girl who recieves bursaries because her parents are split up, is having all her course fees paid for by her dad and is not having to take out a loan because her mum is giving her money to live on. therefore being in no debt when she finishes uni.

saying this infront of me and another friend who both work part time jobs while at uni to live off and are really struggling for money.

and both with younger siblings who we were earlier saying we were worried that will not be able to afford uni when they're older.

i tell her how lucky she is and she says she said 'really do you think so?'

it makes me angry.

[dakyras]

it always does amaze me how ignorant and selfish some people are.

nearly fell out with a good friend last week over a discussion on student fees.

she was for them going up because 'it will mean less people will go to university. too many people are going.'

on me pointing out that they aren't cutting uni places and it will just mean poor people won't be able to go, she didn't seem to care.

this is a girl who recieves bursaries because her parents are split up, is having all her course fees paid for by her dad and is not having to take out a loan because her mum is giving her money to live on. therefore being in no debt when she finishes uni.

saying this infront of me and another friend who both work part time jobs while at uni to live off and are really struggling for money.

and both with younger siblings who we were earlier saying we were worried that will not be able to afford uni when they're older.

i tell her how lucky she is and she says she said 'really do you think so?'

it makes me angry.

[feral chile]

I worked hard to be able to study a degree and be able to contribute to society. Your 45 years old and spend your days trying to belittle young people for studying at university.

Dont try to patronise me. If you dont want to pay for me to be at university, stop paying your taxes, if you do pay taxes that is.

If my spelling truely bothers you that much you can spell check my forum posts for me, i'd be entirely grateful.

A 45 year old man trying to belittle a young person, over the internet, for expressing opinions. Why dont you worry about your own life sonshine?

I'll continue doing my degree, you can continue to pay for it, and at the end of it ill get a job and start to fund young people to do their degrees.

Edited January 10, 2011 by feral chile

[gemstarrr]

The increase in fees will not prevent poor students from going. They will still be able to receive loans and bursaries to pay the fees. It will only prevent people too stupid to work out the figures and who are easily swayed by a cunningly manipulated campaign by the govt.

The increase in fees could have been launched with a "LOOK! You will only pay back £x every year on an average wage" campaign, and everything would have been fine. But the government has deliberately launched it so poorly that students will be discouraged from applying to university.

[Harsim]

I really hope for your sake that you manage to get a job straight after graduating - a lot of graduates don't, so end up becoming unemployed. i myself have 2 degrees, one of them a First Class Honours degree, worked hard to get both of them, and learnt a lot. but they've been absolutely no direct use to me in the job market, and I've had periods of being on benefits.

It's demeaning enough already. I don't think there's any harm in giving people work experience, a lot of good can come of it, I would have been happy to do it. But it has to be presented properly, and there have to be genuine gains. When people are already at rock bottom, the last thing they need is to feel penalised for being there.

Degrees are not the key to opportunity they used to be, before you say too much about 'the unemployed' it might do well to consider the possibility that it's not 'them' we're discussing, but potentially any one of us. Including yourself. Particularly in the current climate.

Edited January 11, 2011 by Harsim

[worm]

I fully appreciate that during my lifetime, as others have, i might have to sign on.

I would rather go out and do a little public service whilst between jobs, rather than sitting at home doing nothing.

I personally think its a wonderful idea. Its simply not logical to have people sitting around their coucil houses doing nothing all day every day. Thats how they turn up on Jeremy Kyle with a glue sniffing problem. They wouldnt be sniffing glue if they had to go out to work for their JSA to put food on their table.

[worm]

The increase in fees will not prevent poor students from going. They will still be able to receive loans and bursaries to pay the fees. It will only prevent people too stupid to work out the figures and who are easily swayed by a cunningly manipulated campaign by the govt.

The increase in fees could have been launched with a "LOOK! You will only pay back £x every year on an average wage" campaign, and everything would have been fine. But the government has deliberately launched it so poorly that students will be discouraged from applying to university.

[treacle]

I fully appreciate that during my lifetime, as others have, i might have to sign on.

I would rather go out and do a little public service whilst between jobs, rather than sitting at home doing nothing.

I personally think its a wonderful idea. Its simply not logical to have people sitting around their coucil houses doing nothing all day every day. Thats how they turn up on Jeremy Kyle with a glue sniffing problem. They wouldnt be sniffing glue if they had to go out to work for their JSA to put food on their table.

The devil makes work for idle thumbs.

[rachbon]

it's sad that so many people have the same views as harsim.

unemployment is a really unfortunate thing and JSA is nowhere near enough money to cover basic living expenses. i don't think there are many people who would actually enjoy being unemployed. it's horrible having no money, being rejected for jobs, being made to feel like an idiot at the job centre.. no one would choose that life and i'm sure that most people who end up unemployed would do whatever they can to find a job.

forcing people to work for no wages isn't the answer to getting people motivated to find work. i think the shite life people have living on benefits is enough motivation. it's just not that easy to find a job!

[eFestivals]

it's just not that easy to find a job!

I disagree with that on some levels - it is (in most places) easy enough for most individuals to get a job; what isn't possible is for everyone to have a job until there's enough jobs to go around.

But even on that individual basis, just because there are jobs doesn't mean that they're necessarily suitable. There's all sorts of factors which come into play on a perfectly reasonable basis, such as the hours of a job not suiting someone who has responsibilities for kids, or the money simply not being enough to cover the costs of living (which benefits do at a minimal level - at the moment, but which is changing soon; who wants to work their nuts off but still not be able to get by?).

And even the holier-than-thou harsim is clearly effected by such scenarios - after all, from his comment above it seems clear that he sees working in a call centre as below him once he has his degree, so I suspect he'd reject that job to sit on his arse until a job that matches what he believes his capabilities to be comes along.

Where he's going very wrong is via his holier-than-thou attitude. The situation of a person just graduated is very different to the situations of others with a longer lifespan than him, or to those whose life-path has taken a different track. And here's betting that he has a nicely supportive mummy and daddy to bail him out of any little crisis, making his dismissal of others situations hugely laughable. Perhaps if he's unfortunate enough to find himself in the shit situations that others find themselves in thru no fault of their own he might come to recognise what a shallow-arsed twat he's been here.

[dakyras]

the main problem is not when you're at university, it's when you've graduated and will have triple the amount of fees to pay back. even done in installments, having that huge level of debt will eat into living expenses significantly more or for a much greater period of time than it does now.

you can call me stupid but having 3 times more debt at the end of uni would definately put me off. if i had parents who i know would be able to support me when i graduate until i get a better paid job and on the housing market, then i wouldn't be so unsure. and i definately wouldn't be unsure if i had parent who could afford to pay my full course fees leaving me with no debt worries.

[eFestivals]

Even if you achieve the average graduate salary of £25k

the average - across a whole lifetime - for a graduate is less than that. It's about £23,500.

And that's of course a number worked out with the number of graduates in society right now. With the number of graduates increasing, the average graduate wage is decreasing, because the number of well-paid jobs is staying much as it's ever been.

The simple fact is that it's no longer a financial advantage for the average graduate to go to Uni, as the costs of the fee payback now outstrips the average financial advantage.

[Ed209]

... Neil, Worm and Phil are not arguing against each other! Let that be an indication of how wrong you are.

[grumpyhack]

I fully appreciate that during my lifetime, as others have, i might have to sign on.

I would rather go out and do a little public service whilst between jobs, rather than sitting at home doing nothing.

I personally think its a wonderful idea. Its simply not logical to have people sitting around their coucil houses doing nothing all day every day. Thats how they turn up on Jeremy Kyle with a glue sniffing problem. They wouldnt be sniffing glue if they had to go out to work for their JSA to put food on their table.

The devil makes work for idle thumbs.

[Pogues Mcgogues]

I graduated from univeristy in 2010, got made redundant from my part time job whilst at uni, poped on the brew and got a job working in a call centre.

I know folk doing masters, could maybe try my hand at that, or another post grad course or working elsewhere.

I was fairly content on the dole for most of it if I remember correctly.

[feral chile]

I graduated from univeristy in 2010, got made redundant from my part time job whilst at uni, poped on the brew and got a job working in a call centre.

I know folk doing masters, could maybe try my hand at that, or another post grad course or working elsewhere.

I was fairly content on the dole for most of it if I remember correctly.

[dakyras]

MA starting in September.

It's f**king annoying that because everyone and his pet monkey has a degree, I have to go get another one to make me seem more attractive to an employer's arbitrary 'degree-level' employment requirements.

[feral chile]

MA starting in September.

It's f**king annoying that because everyone and his pet monkey has a degree, I have to go get another one to make me seem more attractive to an employer's arbitrary 'degree-level' employment requirements.

Edited January 11, 2011 by feral chile

[worm]

MA starting in September.

It's f**king annoying that because everyone and his pet monkey has a degree, I have to go get another one to make me seem more attractive to an employer's arbitrary 'degree-level' employment requirements.