Football 2010-2011

[eFestivals]

Firstly, yes they have played together, as I've already said.

wasn't it only for about 5 minutes tho?

Secondly, and more importantly, no the sale of Jones wasn't essential to the purchase of Gyan. It's just good business to have a definite exchange when trying to incrementally strengthen your positions - it makes the investors happier.

Yeah, S'land had the money just kicking around waiting to be spent without having sold Jones first. They're always making record buys without having to sell to haver the funds, eh?

[eFestivals]

Only because we'll have a better player.

Planet cuckoo!!

If the likes of Villa can't hang onto Milner and Spurs can't hang onto Berba then you don't have a hope in hell of keeping Henderson when the big boys come knocking, and certainly don't have a chance of already having a better player as a replacement unless you have the country's next wunderkid in your youth set-up.

[eFestivals]

It boils down to this:

Do Sunderland have investors with deep pockets and cofidence in the team, the business strategy and the returns?

I reckon Sunderland tick the box on all counts for the purchase of Johnson.

It does!

Do they have the deep pockets? Not that they've shown so far.

Do they have confidence in the team? Only for tiny steps, as the tiny steps they've been making to date get to show.

Do they have the business strategy? Unlikely, as few clubs do.

Do they have the returns? Extremely unlikely, as even less do.

[worm]

Yeah, S'land had the money just kicking around waiting to be spent without having sold Jones first. They're always making record buys without having to sell to have the funds, eh?

[worm]

It does!

Do they have the deep pockets? Not that they've shown so far.

Do they have confidence in the team? Only for tiny steps, as the tiny steps they've been making to date get to show.

Do they have the business strategy? Unlikely, as few clubs do.

Do they have the returns? Extremely unlikely, as even less do.

[worm]

If the likes of Villa can't hang onto Milner and Spurs can't hang onto Berba then....

[eFestivals]

Once more for the troubled of thought:

They have investors with enough cash. The investors won't release the cash unless everything's in working order. Just as Gyan comes in to incrementally replace Jones (good business), so they would like to see Jones going for a good return rather than stick around redundantly (good business).

they might have owners who have plenty of cash. They don't have owners willing to give the club all that cash to spend.

What planet are you living on? The same one where there's a club called Sunderland Association Football Club I presume.

[eFestivals]

.....the likes of Villa can't hang onto Milner and Spurs can't hang onto Berba.

.... and of course it'll all be different at S'land, cos every millionaire player is dead keen to live around that way as their first choice location, and of course because S'land has a far better reputation as a football club than either Villa tr Spurs.

Cuckoo, cuckoo.

[worm]

they might have owners who have plenty of cash. They don't have owners willing to give the club all that cash to spend.

[eFestivals]

Just as well I didn't remotely imply that then eh. Once again:

They have investors with enough cash. The investors won't release the cash unless everything's in working order. Just as Gyan comes in to incrementally replace Jones (good business), so they would like to see Jones going for a good return rather than stick around redundantly (good business).

and buying Johnson is waaaaaaay beyond the incremental that you say they'll be happy to do!! What part of that are you completely failing to grasp?

At the rate of the incremental steps so far, it's 5+ years before you'll get to a A.Johnson. But in fact it'll be longer by that method, because the steps get smaller and costs get ever greater the more you move up the tree.

Plus ... you have Steve Bruce as manager. Just ask the other clubs!

[worm]

and of course it'll all be different at S'land

Edited November 17, 2010 by worm

[worm]

and buying Johnson is waaaaaaay beyond the incremental that you say they'll be happy to do!! What part of that are you completely failing to grasp?

[ampersand]

We're filling them up one by one and Johnson is perfect for the next step.

[eFestivals]

It might be, it might not be. It all depends on how much someone offers and how valuable Sunderland deem him.

it does - and the simple fact is that more attractive clubs in reputation, location and ambition are almost always likely to make a comparable (or better) offer for the same player. Sunderland are unfortunate in that they're hugely unlikely to be the first choice or near the top of the choices for any player who is already playing in this country (aside from those already local, perhaps).

So Sunderland will be left with the options of over-paying for a player (with the impact that then has back onto the club, and the owner's willingness to cough up for further over-priced players), or of buying players that don't much interest other clubs (which of course means they're less well thought-of players to the football world in general).

It's a catch 22 - those things won't much change until Sunderland have a number of years of being a strong (say, 6th or better) team behind them, but of course their chances of making that top 6 and staying there will be limited by that general unattractiveness of going there.

Shitty have the money and ambition and location, but they're suffering a lot from the fact of them being thought of as an unattractive club - if they with their millions are having trouble shaking that off, then there's little hope for Sunderland.

[Cardboard Box City]

cos every millionaire player is dead keen to live around that way as their first choice location

[ampersand]

Mendieta still lives within 5 miles of me despite retiring a couple of years ago and was at one point the part time groundsman for Yarm Cricket Club. Alan Shearer lives about 3 miles from me. As does Kevin Keegan. Mark Viduka never moved from his home in Leeds while playing for both Boro and Newcastle while Nicky Butt also never moved from Manchester while playing for the Geordies.

[eFestivals]

No, I've said that they'd be happy to purchase Johnson as a number one winger. So he clearly isn't way beyond what I've said.

I live the way you're spending other people's money like it's your own.

Why won't they be happy to buy Johnson? Because it's waaaaay beyond anything they've been happy to do so far.

We paid 9M for a number one keeper three+ years ago and 11M for a number one striker a couple of years back.

and the clubs you're aiming at getting above spend that amount at minimum every year, not that amount every three years!!!

We'd currently benefit from a number one winger the calibre of Johnson who will be joining a far superior side than the one that Gordon and Bent stepped into.

Lots of other clubs - and better clubs both in prospects and money available to spend - can make the same offer.

But those buys? One needed to escape Scotland to further his career so was likely to take near enough any offer from any Prem club, while the other wasn't considered good enough for Spurs (a team who are REALLY doing what you're dreaming of!) and who sold him at a £5M (or about 1/3 of buying value) loss - and who after having sold him got to hit those heights, not while they had him.

If we need more money then the money will be made available as long as the investors can se the rise in quality.

On the basis of what's happened so far, they're exceedingly slow to open their wallets, and haven't opened them at a rate to match your dreams.

The Gyan comparison is stupid as he was a number two striker.

Only to someone who has no idea about Gyan.

We updated our number two for 5M. But we don't have a high calibre winger so that position is to be bought from scratch, in exactly the same way that we bought Bent and Gordon to fill those vacant positions. We're filling them up one by one and Johnson is perfect for the next step.

he might be perfect for your dreams. History shows that he's waaaaaay beyond the reality of S'land's ambition so far.

There's nothing to suggest that's changing. In fact, history shows the ambition as lessening and not growing (that's a different thing to the strength of the squad growing, which I recognise it's doing - but slowly, very slowly).

[eFestivals]

Mendieta still lives within 5 miles of me despite retiring a couple of years ago and was at one point the part time groundsman for Yarm Cricket Club. Alan Shearer lives about 3 miles from me. As does Kevin Keegan. Mark Viduka never moved from his home in Leeds while playing for both Boro and Newcastle while Nicky Butt also never moved from Manchester while playing for the Geordies.

I've not said that people who find themselves there won't ever enjoy living there.

But you can't really count Keegan or Shearer, they've merely come home (tho has Keegan really? He was living in Scotland last I'd heard).

I know Owen never moved from Cheshire either - but commuting is easy with a helicopter!

The likes of Butt probably only looked at it as a temporary thing for the last year or two of his career, I guess he's married (kids as well?), so there's all sorts of reasons why players would sometimes choose not to move - but it of course comes against the personal inconvenience of the travelling, so it still comes with a cost. At the end of the day, Butt felt all that travelling was a better thing than living in the area.

I'm simply stating the reality that if given a full choice, for most players the NE would not be their first choice.

[worm]

Why won't they be happy to buy Johnson? Because it's waaaaay beyond anything they've been happy to do so far.

[eFestivals]

You mean like when we thought we'd signed him, but for Man City's dodgy stunt?

it's one thing buying a player at £7M, another thing entirely to go waaaay beyond your transfer record to buy him at hugely more.

You don't think we can afford him and that our investors think it a step too far. I think the opposite. You're opinion is a montage of spurious comparisons based upon f**k all, whereas mine is based upon the fact that we can afford him and that our investors are backing the move.

really? Where have you got that from?

I'm thinking Jimmy Hill.

Whether we get him is another matter. There may well be a better deal kicking about. But I reckon he'd want to come.

I don't. There's too many other clubs that would also be in the hunt for him if he's available at a price you can afford.

[Cardboard Box City]

But you can't really count Keegan or Shearer, they've merely come home (tho has Keegan really? He was living in Scotland last I'd heard).

Edited November 17, 2010 by Cardboard Box City

[funkymp]

Nothings changed with England - play against a nation who actually keeps the ball and passes around = England look fowking lost.

Wonder how many 'sack capello, redknapp in' stories appear in the papers tomorrow

[Cardboard Box City]

Nothings changed with England - play against a nation who actually keeps the ball and passes around = England look fowking lost.

[ralph250]

I don't. There's too many other clubs that would also be in the hunt for him if he's available at a price you can afford.

[ralph250]

We had Jay Bothroyd, Andy Carroll, Ben Foster, Kieron Gibbs and Jordan Henderson all involved. Not exactly time to wet the bed just yet.