Touts Debate

[farewellandgoodnight]

I Still think Micheal came across really poorly in that Video.

[disasterplan]

That think of it is a proper holiday is a good point. I Still think Micheal came across really poorly in that Video.

[vespa]

So you think that companies should be allowed to buy up half the Glastonbury ticket allocation and sell them on for whatever price they deem fit then?

If not then what's your point? If so then you're a bit of a divvy really.

Edited April 14, 2010 by vespa

[farewellandgoodnight]

Companies aren't allowed to buy up tickets, so don't know where you got that one from! we're talking about touts not the likes of seatwave etc!

Edited April 14, 2010 by farewellandgoodnight

[vespa]

hey farewellandgoodnight your starting to make this personal, if you want to say something to me pm me... don't try putting me down!

you have been rude and nonproductive in your replies try adding something constructive or something at all

[Redwinevino]

In what way?

[farewellandgoodnight]

hey farewellandgoodnight your starting to make this personal, if you want to say something to me pm me... don't try putting me down!

you have been rude and nonproductive in your replies try adding something constructive or something at all

[vespa]

I just found a article i read last summer

The Government may legislate if the ticket industry fails to stamp out touts, culture secretary Tessa Jowell said today.

The Government may legislate if the ticket industry fails to stamp out touts, culture secretary Tessa Jowell said today.

Speaking at a summit with industry leaders, including online merchants such as eBay, Ticketmaster, and See Tickets, Jowell said protection of consumers is paramount. If the industry fails to deliver significant progress on tackling ticket touting, she said the Government would not rule out legislating.

Jowell said the Government is concerned that genuine fans are being priced out of the market by ticket touts who often charge as much as ten times the face value for tickets for the most popular sporting and entertainment events.

The Government has suggested that the industry agrees to introduce several steps to fight the problem, including:

- a returns policy that lets fans return tickets at face value to the original sellers if they are unable to attend an event.

- a website set up by the Concert Promoters Association where fans can exchange tickets at face value.

- A move to work with the Office of Fair Trading to draw up terms of conditions and kite marks for ticket sales websites, so that consumers know they are buying from an approved agent.

- A pledge to continue working with the industry and OFT to draw up an over-arching code of practice for both primary and secondary tickets sellers.

Jowell said:

"The industry should consider itself on notice - if it hasn't come up with a workable solution to stamping out the most unscrupulous touts by next summer, where there is clear evidence it's needed, we may consider targeted action and changes in legislation to ensure genuine fans are protected from exploitation."

[LondonTom]

So before going mad at touts get mad at the people who empower them, and the same people who could easily put an end to it!!!

[Redwinevino]

No one is mad at the touts really here well abit for doing it and having to have measures, I think most people would more than happy for the reg system to apply to gigs, it would be so easy for ticketmaster/seetickets to have an account set up with reg details for any event wouldn't it? I think we all accept a lot of the blame lies at promoters doors for not doing anything about it with a select few including GFL taking a stand.

[Macca3031]

Although you can't return your ticket after May 6th you can insure it to get your money back after that. So it is similar to having a holiday/flight booked. For £4.25 you know you will get face value back which you're not guaranteed if you sell on say a Reading ticket when you find out you cannot go (I know it's more likely you'll get more than face value but it's not guaranteed).

[Redwinevino]

Although you can't return your ticket after May 6th you can insure it to get your money back after that. So it is similar to having a holiday/flight booked. For £4.25 you know you will get face value back which you're not guaranteed if you sell on say a Reading ticket when you find out you cannot go (I know it's more likely you'll get more than face value but it's not guaranteed).

[LondonTom]

If you mean photo's no way I or most of the people I know would like that system

[markeee]

I think the sucess of the glastonbury system and the comments for doing something about it warrants, how do you solve it then? Or do you not think its out of hand? What is actually your problem if your not going to sell on the tickets with a system that make sure you got the money you paid for the tickets back and not profit off someone elses work?

When you buy your ticket/pass off the balance there is little check box that asks if you wish to add insurance or not for £4.25 a ticket

[bexj]

The photos have been a superb way of increasing personal safety while travelling to the event too. Pre-photo days, people were getting their tickets pinched in service stations, in the queue along the road and even taken from their hands walking across the field, fully laden, from the car to the gate. Now, you tell me that the touts are just doing fair business when that sort of thing is going on? I don't see why the photo scheme couldn't work on all festivals and big arena events, but I do think for smaller gigs it would end up inflating ticket prices to cover costs.

Edited April 14, 2010 by bexj

[ramragon]

most of the touts sign up to band mailing lists giving them early access to tickets before they go on public sale. admittedly there are usually just a small amount of pre sale available but i'm sure thats how the touts get tickets to sell on. I dont know what the soloution is to stop this happening, other than hitting sites like ebay which give the touts an open market with which to sell the tickets on at an inflated value. I know with the glastonbury tickets, photographs on them have helped stop the open market because people are less willing to shell out £200 on an event they may be turned away from.

Putting photographs on all tickets is impracticle and for your usual day to day gig wouldnt work, however i'm sure with the rediculous handling fees and postage fee's you get charged for each ticket they could afford to put them on !

It always amuses me when you get to a gig late and you see the touts desperately running around trying to offload their unsold tickets before they become valueless !

[HAPPY CHEF]

Ok,now forgive me if I'm being thick here but every year I've been to Guilfest thre have been tickets available on the gate and a sizeable number of touts around to. How does this work? Surely the touts must be selling at face value or below otherwise people would simply buy their tickets from the gate. The fact there are so many touts there means they are clearly doing some business,but how?

[Digi]

I don't really have a problem with touts - they've found a clever way to make alot of cash. I wish the need for them didn't exist and ive begrudged every second of putting money into their pockets when i've used them in the past - but the need to see a gig has far outweighed my moral stance! My morals have kicked in however whenever i've had a ticket to sell on - never for anything more than face value + booking fee + postage. Karma is a bitch!

What I have a HUGE problem with is the ticket companies and the promoters who don't really give a shit about your average fan, who pretty much could erradicate the need for fans to buy from touts and who, as long as they are making a healthy profit, don't particularly care who they sell to

Putting photos on every ticket or making every ticket 'will call' with ID at the box office would go someway to putting a stop to it - it'd be interesting to see exactly how much ticket prices would increase to pay for it

[farewellandgoodnight]

Ok,now forgive me if I'm being thick here but every year I've been to Guilfest thre have been tickets available on the gate and a sizeable number of touts around to. How does this work? Surely the touts must be selling at face value or below otherwise people would simply buy their tickets from the gate. The fact there are so many touts there means they are clearly doing some business,but how?

Edited April 14, 2010 by farewellandgoodnight

[Digi]

The need for them doesn't exist really. They create an artificial need by buying up large numbers of tickets that would otherwise have been sold to real fans at face value.

[DougalMcGuire]

Interesting points made throughout this thread, I'm amazed so many are standing up for the touting process as though it's a fair and legitimate way of making money. This supply and demand argument that has been brought up so many times is absolute and utter bollocks, the ticket is worth the price dictated by the promoter and printed on the ticket.

If someone stood inside your local supermarkets 10 minutes before they opened every day (ignoring the 24 hour openers!) and bought all the milk, then set up a stall outside selling it for £5 a pint, does that make it worth more? In GCSE economics terms maybe, but in the real world the word extortion has been used already on here and it's bang on.

I can't stand it. A huge proportion of tickets are bought up by touts with the sole aim of selling them on. I've even been to gigs which supply far exceeded demand. At the Foo Fighters acoustic gig in London a few years back the gig sold out in a minute, yet half the venue was empty. It was clearly because loads of people thought it'd be a great idea to buy the tickets and ebay them, but then couldn't shift them because so many people had the same idea. It ruins the atmosphere of the gig, costs goers loads and creates a black market.

[Insomaniac]

I don't really have a problem with touts -

[disasterplan]

If someone stood inside your local supermarkets 10 minutes before they opened every day (ignoring the 24 hour openers!) and bought all the milk, then set up a stall outside selling it for £5 a pint, does that make it worth more? In GCSE economics terms maybe, but in the real world the word extortion has been used already on here and it's bang on.

[ParanoidAndroid86]

I don't have much of a problem with someone selling on ebay and making a profit from a genuine spare ticket - after all, demand is such that people will spend silly money on the most average of artists. But buying up tickets - whether it be a tout on ebay of a site like Get Me In etc - in bulk with the sole purpose of selling them on for 2-4X face value is utterly cynical and wrong. It really should be be made illegal - but instead the government seem to condone it by trying to impose taxes, thus profiting from it! Perhaps the government could impose 75-80% tax on the profits made by such websites and see how much longer they wish to stay in business?

It's all very well citing basic business concepts involving supply and demand - but the simple fact is that the demand is there and the tickets would be sold at face value if given the opportunity. The promoters should also give people more of an opportunity to return tickets. If people could be granted a full refund minus a small admin fee, people without tickets could be on a waiting list. It really wouldn't be too expensive to implement and a computer could probably coordinate it.

[abu hamster]

if all tickets were refundable Whitney Houston would have no audience for the rest of her tour!

Did I mention touts are c**ts