Touts Debate

[farewellandgoodnight]

I know it's an old chestnut but having just seen this video in another thread my piss is literally boiling from watching this dickhead in a suit talking about how people want to be screwed over.

Apologies for the language but that guy is an absolute grade A c**t, the way he keeps referring to us all as "consumers" rather than fans shows he has absolutely no idea what he's talking about!

To say that people want the opportunity to pay twice the face value for a ticket is a nonsense. They do because they have no choice and they have no choice because of arseholes like him. Seriously i's be surprised if he's ever been to a gig in his life.

I don't have a problem with ordinary people selling on a spare ticket. I don't even have an issue with them making a decent profit off of it. The issue is that this isn't the problem, it's companys buying hundreds of tickets and holding real fans to ransom over them to make a killing.

In reference to the ebay thread on here, this is what a tout looks like not a performer trying to make a couple of quid from their good fortune.

Also I wonder how many of the other "festivals" would sell out on day one like Glasto without the help of shitheads like this. This is the reason why the registration system is such a good idea! Viva Eavis!

Rant over!

Be interested to hear other's comments on the matter.

Edited April 13, 2010 by farewellandgoodnight

[fowls]

I can't stand it. A huge proportion of tickets are bought up by touts with the sole aim of selling them on. I've even been to gigs which supply far exceeded demand. At the Foo Fighters acoustic gig in London a few years back the gig sold out in a minute, yet half the venue was empty. It was clearly because loads of people thought it'd be a great idea to buy the tickets and ebay them, but then couldn't shift them because so many people had the same idea. It ruins the atmosphere of the gig, costs goers loads and creates a black market.

The arguments I hate most are:

"It's business" - Business is the ORIGINAL SELLING OF THE TICKET. Buying up all stock and then forcing people to pay several times the face value isn't business at all. It's extortion.

"but I only bought one or two extra tickets" - It's these selfish people making a little buck on the side that is making the problem so much worse. The internet has made it so easy to tout now that it's a pretty strong temptation for many people.

"Supply & demand" - Same as the business really. Creating a false demand by purposefully restricting the supply isn't in the spirit of supply and demand. If touts didn't exist, a lot fo the time supply would be perfectly sufficient for demand.

Personally I think ticket sites should force some sort of ID onto the tickets, but allow full refunds to people who can't make the gig. That way no touts can sell the tickets and if people want their money back they can get it back quickly and easily through official sources.

Now my tout horror story:

When I saw Blur in Hyde Park my friend had to pull out, so I had a spare ticket. I decided to make a sign saying I'll sell the ticket for face value. The touts kicked up a HUGE fuss that I was "destroying their livelihood" as if they had a perfectly legitimate business going. If they want a free market economy (like they make out with their "supply and demand"), then they're going to have to deal with competition undercutting them.

Also saw one fan selling a ticket try and undercut a tout by walking over to a tout in the middle of business with a buyer, and letting the buyer know they're selling for cheaper. So the 2 fans walked down the path to sort a deal out, and the tout went absolutely ballistic, getting in their faces really aggressively. He kept shouting until the buyer sheepishly gave in and bought off the tout. It's terrible behaviour, but they get away with it.

To top it off, police came over and told me to rip up the sign or they'd have to arrest or fine me. So touts can scream as much as they like with police around, selling tickets for obscene prices, but if someone makes a sign advertising a fair price it's against the law for trying to illegally sell a ticket! It makes no sense at all. If anything, the way police work is protecting the tout's business.

Rant over

Edited April 13, 2010 by fowls

[farewellandgoodnight]

That dickhead was talking about true market value based on demand which basically means "we can screw you because you're desperate". They said at least three or four times that there's no easy way around it and every time Michael said just put the photo on the tickets. Simple as that, job done! Problem is that most promoters don't care if the gig is half empty as long as somebody bought all the tickets.

[abu hamster]

Touts are blood sucking leeches! Everyone who buys a ticket from them should get to stab them in exchange! £70 to see Florence andthe machine f**k you!

Edited April 13, 2010 by abu hamster

[Redwinevino]

While I don't like touts and have said before I would never sell for above FV.

The picture system is rubbish and screws over people who do need to get rid of there tickets

[abu hamster]

While I don't like touts and have said before I would never sell for above FV.

The picture system is rubbish and screws over people who do need to get rid of there tickets

[disasterplan]

I'm more than happy having my picture on the ticket. I don't know any other events that let you cancel and get a refund if you simply change your mind, can't afford it etc...

[abu hamster]

I'm more than happy having my picture on the ticket. I don't know any other events that let you cancel and get a refund if you simply change your mind, can't afford it etc...

[disasterplan]

Imagine ringing MB and asking for a refund on your Reading ticket cause you didn't like the lineup. He'd tell you to go F yourself!

[abu hamster]

Exactly

[farewellandgoodnight]

While I don't like touts and have said before I would never sell for above FV.

The picture system is rubbish and screws over people who do need to get rid of there tickets

Edited April 13, 2010 by farewellandgoodnight

[Redwinevino]

You mean the fans who want to be there! The picture is great the system (see) is shite

[abu hamster]

Touts are c**ts as are Touting companies!

[disasterplan]

RWV, I can see you have the best of intentions here but I'd rather the odd person ditched their ticket at a loss of £185 for, say, the birth of their firstborn, a life-saving operation or whatever than thousands of people getting raped by large-scale touting operations.

Yes, a photo system is going to disadantage a few people but when you decide not to go, that's your decision. Paying over the odds for a ticket because a middleman decided to buy up half the stock is by far the greater evil and GF should be applauded for their efforts in cutting this out.

[disasterplan]

Holy sh it, I think I just used the 'greater good' argument. Oh my.

[lolbeck]

As far as I'm concerned, it's only ever acceptable to sell a ticket on for face value. I've never had to sell a ticket, but there have been times in the past when I've had a +1 on a guestlist and no one to go to a gig with me, and someone's desperately run along the queue asking for spare tickets. I've always offered that +1, not asked for money or anything (though I did accept a drink in return once), because I figure if I've not had to pay for it, then they don't either.

Similarly, if I did have to sell a ticket, if I paid £180 for it, then they can pay £180 for it too. It's only fair.

[Redwinevino]

RWV, I can see you have the best of intentions here but I'd rather the odd person ditched their ticket at a loss of £185 for, say, the birth of their firstborn, a life-saving operation or whatever than thousands of people getting raped by large-scale touting operations.

Yes, a photo system is going to disadantage a few people but when you decide not to go, that's your decision. Paying over the odds for a ticket because a middleman decided to buy up half the stock is by far the greater evil and GF should be applauded for their efforts in cutting this out.

[vespa]

i have to admit touts who buy bulk tickets online, are good business men and they buy wisely on gigs which will sell out and they can make a profit on! i hate the buggers, but i have also found some half decent ones... once i was in birmingham and i thought the gig wasn't sold out, when i got there it was and couldn't afford the tout prices, but some tout asked what was up and he gave me a ticket for face value

We underlying problem isn't these people but the laws they work around! there is a clear solution its not putting photographs on tickets or limiting the amount of tickets per household etc...

its using section 166 of the criminal justice and public order act 1994 if the organisers prohibited the resale of tickets, it would be against the law for touts to sell the tickets. this is currently working for several football teams.

if i ever have spare tickets, i either offer it up on facebook or post on a fan related forum for face value if not i bang it on ebay for £1 and let people who want it sort it out for themselves!

i have no problem with tickets on ebay as long as the person is selling for honest reasons! i once bid upto £750 when Led Zeppelin reunited

A TICKET IS ONLY AS VALUABLE AS SOMEONE WANTS IT TO BE!

If everyone boycotted touts they would soon be out of business

Edited April 13, 2010 by vespa

[disasterplan]

Surely someone paying over the odds is there decision to thou? I don't like company's doing what they do but it's sadly a sign of the times we live in. I have had to sell tickets on before and took FV or Less due to people pulling out on the day, missing flights and one mis - understanding that me and a friend both bought the 3 tickets we need for a gig in dublin, there are website that have strict rules that you can't charge over Face Value and these also should be applauded

Edited April 13, 2010 by disasterplan

[farewellandgoodnight]

A TICKET IS ONLY AS VALUABLE AS SOMEONE WANTS IT TO BE!

Edited April 14, 2010 by farewellandgoodnight

[LondonTom]

While I don't like touts and have said before I would never sell for above FV.

The picture system is rubbish and screws over people who do need to get rid of there tickets

Edited April 14, 2010 by LondonTom

[markeee]

the glasto system works a treat, if there was no such system in place, touts would snap up thousands and charge ludicrious prices for them..simple as

the photo id/reg isn't that much of an effort, it stays on file for a fair number of years!

[vespa]

Bullshit! It's as valuable as the face value unless you want people to get ripped off left right and centre. If that's not the case then why not just sell next year's allocation through ebay and be done with it?

It's not their decision though if it's taken out of their hands because somebody's bought half the tickets and they no longer have a FAIR chance to obtain a ticket through normal channels though is it?

Surely you can see that?

[farewellandgoodnight]

get a grip its like anything, something is only as valuable as people make it... demand and quantity will control the value!

i have paid over the odds many times for tickets, and i've never been upset about it! i wanted to see the band so i paid what i needed to see them! you will know in your head how much you will want to spend!!!!

Edited April 14, 2010 by farewellandgoodnight

[Redwinevino]

It dosn't really screw anyone over, if your that worried about your not being able to get your ticket get the insurance which covers you for a lot of proper reasons. (Think of it as a proper holiday, you can't just decide a couple of days before your holiday your not going anymore can you?)

Its a silly argument, I think maybe the cancelling the ticket thing could be extended a little, where by a number of tickets maybe went on sale just before the event, or door tickets that saw you go in when you brought the ticket could work for gigs to.

Not necessarily, it prices a lot of people out of it, theres no way to stop company's doing it and allow someone doing it on the side or cos they have had to give up the tickets, as said before with the ease of the internet, I've got through to gigs I know are in demand and been tempted to buy a couple of extra to tout (Never have because I always end thinking what if its me who can't get the ticket the next gig karma and all that). The glastonbury sollution is here, its fantastic it works and lot more people like it than don't.

For gigs something else needs to be done, its lot more likely you might have to cancel, so have full refunds available minus say the booking fee? , I think places having a reserve list of people who maybe put down half the ticket price as refundable deposit so they can be offered any refunded tickets on first come first served basis.

I did enjoy watching the youtube video to for the same reason, that Michael just stuck to the same argument because there is no other argument and said its simple to solve by putting photos on the tickets, its solved everything to do with touting at glastonbury and shows the way forward.