Eminem?

[Tugger2k]

??? am I dreaming or is that the daftest post ever?

[eFestivals]

I would say anyone trying to argue that Eminem's undoubtedly homophobic lyrics should disqualify him from Glastonbury but excusing any other possible crime is on fairly shaky ground.

If you argue that Eminem should be banned for inciting violence what about Dizzee who has openly admitted to actual violence and Pete Doherty who has been found by a court to incite violence at gigs?

I appreciate that for a lot of people homophobia is distinctly unpleasant and I can see the distinctions being drawn in people's heads. But logically and morally the argument is very weak.

A wider discussion of acts and what they're saying can be had. But this is a discussion about Eminem specifically.

I'm not arguing that Eminem should be banned for inciting violence. I'm merely repeating that in the past I've been told that Eminem hasn't been considered suitable for Glastonbury because of his lyrics and his refusal to disassociate himself personally from those lyrics.

His lyrics are homophobic. He's refused to disassociate himself from those lyrics. So from that point of view Glastonbury are on solid ground with that view.

While you say Dizzee has admitted to violence, has he said it was a good thing to do, or refused to condemn his own actions as wrong?

Plus, with a wider view, we live in a society where violence is considered acceptable in certain circumstances (from wars right down to self defence) - so violence itself is not always wrong.

Yet at the same time, we live in a society where violence against individuals because of (just) their sexuality is considered wrong - so Eminem is in a place there where it becomes difficult to give his lyrics any justification without resorting to ideas that Eminem hasn't put forwards himself (such as those words being 'art' and not personally meant).

(I think the Doherty thing can be ignored as irrelevant - it was merely something put forwards as legal reason for a licence refusal; because of the licencing laws being as they are, a legal justification has to be found for refusal, and they'll make up any old crap as long as it can stand up to legal challenge)

[eFestivals]

Which could be said for Plan B........

Then you need to listen to his lyrics more carefully. Where he's coming from is VERY clear.

[eFestivals]

But you've got Plan B who I've previously mentioned who's played and has lyrics such as

Which is the same as Eminem.

The exact song I was thinking of since Plan B has been mentioned.

I would have thought the difference between "that's the mentality of kids today" and "this is my mentality" would have been clear to anyone.

[.jay.]

The dehumanisation is yours, via the belief that being a drug addict makes a person scum.

[Langdale Wolf]

its close mate, really, really close

[russycarps]

is there a reason you have ignored me twice when i've asked for an explaination of this?

[eFestivals]

is there a reason you have ignored me twice when i've asked for an explaination of this?

Yes, what you put forwards in the first place which got this response was the reason for that response. You're talking ignorant crap.

You are making the mistake of thinking a free choice to take drugs is no different to being a drug addict. The clue is in the word 'addict', a recognised medical condition.

[1mills]

Then you need to listen to his lyrics more carefully. Where he's coming from is VERY clear.

Edited March 4, 2010 by 1mills

[.jay.]

Yes, what you put forwards in the first place which got this response was the reason for that response. You're talking ignorant crap.

You are making the mistake of thinking a free choice to take drugs is no different to being a drug addict. The clue is in the word 'addict', a recognised medical condition.

[Langdale Wolf]

you patronizing prick, you have no basis at all to come to that conclusion about me at all and you know it, if you had you would quote it and your just digging now to try and justify your arrogant, ignorant bullshit conclusions.

all you do all day every day is sit on this f**king site and argue with people, sat in your little internet castle on top of your high horse putting the world to rights and arguing like some demented moron, you use the excuse that it takes two to argue and yes it does but that does not explain why you do it all the sodding time, at least those arguing with you move on and get on with other shit, you just roll from argument to argument day in day out in this place.

it's no wonder you're so odd it's enough to drive any sane person round the twist, you're not right mate, honestly!

you've build this little world here and sit here lapping it up, it truely is f**king bizarre.

[russycarps]

you patronizing prick, you have no basis at all to come to that conclusion about me at all and you know it, if you had you would quote it and your just digging now to try and justify your arrogant, ignorant bullshit conclusions.

all you do all day every day is sit on this f**king site and argue with people, sat in your little internet castle on top of your high horse putting the world to rights and arguing like some demented moron, you use the excuse that it takes two to argue and yes it does but that does not explain why you do it all the sodding time, at least those arguing with you move on and get on with other shit, you just roll from argument to argument day in day out in this place.

it's no wonder you're so odd it's enough to drive any sane person round the twist, you're not right mate, honestly!

you've build this little world here and sit here lapping it up, it truely is f**king bizarre.

[Jaydog]

you patronizing prick, you have no basis at all to come to that conclusion about me at all and you know it, if you had you would quote it and your just digging now to try and justify your arrogant, ignorant bullshit conclusions.

all you do all day every day is sit on this f**king site and argue with people, sat in your little internet castle on top of your high horse putting the world to rights and arguing like some demented moron, you use the excuse that it takes two to argue and yes it does but that does not explain why you do it all the sodding time, at least those arguing with you move on and get on with other shit, you just roll from argument to argument day in day out in this place.

it's no wonder you're so odd it's enough to drive any sane person round the twist, you're not right mate, honestly!

you've build this little world here and sit here lapping it up, it truely is f**king bizarre.

[Langdale Wolf]

This thread is just brilliant. It started as the usual duplicated thread about an artist (the OP is new to the boards so I'm not having a go there) and has descended into pure genius.

With a few comedy, cringeworthy 'lyrics' that are apparently shouted by this bigoted Yank just to top it off.

And THEN we get Jay's magnum opus.

Fan-bloody-tastic.

Edited March 4, 2010 by Langdale Wolf

[.jay.]

ahahahah this is one of the funniest things I have seen on here. I can imagine you red faced and furiously pounding out that reply in your impotent fury.

Quite hilarious.

[In transit]

A wider discussion of acts and what they're saying can be had. But this is a discussion about Eminem specifically.

I'm not arguing that Eminem should be banned for inciting violence. I'm merely repeating that in the past I've been told that Eminem hasn't been considered suitable for Glastonbury because of his lyrics and his refusal to disassociate himself personally from those lyrics.

[Kowalski]

you patronizing prick, you have no basis at all to come to that conclusion about me at all and you know it, if you had you would quote it and your just digging now to try and justify your arrogant, ignorant bullshit conclusions.

all you do all day every day is sit on this f**king site and argue with people, sat in your little internet castle on top of your high horse putting the world to rights and arguing like some demented moron, you use the excuse that it takes two to argue and yes it does but that does not explain why you do it all the sodding time, at least those arguing with you move on and get on with other shit, you just roll from argument to argument day in day out in this place.

it's no wonder you're so odd it's enough to drive any sane person round the twist, you're not right mate, honestly!

you've build this little world here and sit here lapping it up, it truely is f**king bizarre.

[Langdale Wolf]

You should have quoted which Eminem song the above was from. Third album I think?

[eFestivals]

you patronizing prick, you have no basis at all to come to that conclusion about me at all and you know it

well, apart from the words you typed that show you as not recognising adsdiction as a medical condition and not free choice of course.

all you do all day every day is sit on this f**king site and argue with people, sat in your little internet castle on top of your high horse putting the world to rights and arguing like some demented moron, you use the excuse that it takes two to argue and yes it does but that does not explain why you do it all the sodding time, at least those arguing with you move on and get on with other shit, you just roll from argument to argument day in day out in this place.

it's no wonder you're so odd it's enough to drive any sane person round the twist, you're not right mate, honestly!

you've build this little world here and sit here lapping it up, it truely is f**king bizarre.

Yes, I'm the bizarre one.

[fezzyeads]

Insufferable c**ts.

I remembered why i stayed well away from these boards...

Too many forummers who think they know it all

What a bunch of f**kwits

[Jaydog]

Insufferable c**ts.

I remembered why i stayed well away from these boards...

Too many forummers who think they know it all

What a bunch of f**kwits

[russycarps]

Insufferable c**ts.

I remembered why i stayed well away from these boards...

Too many forummers who think they know it all

What a bunch of f**kwits

[Tugger2k]

I think you should stick around. I guarantee you will learn something. And believe me, education is precisely what you need.

[eFestivals]

This is what the argument seems to boil down to - if Eminem said he didn't mean his homophobic lyrics would you then welcome him to Glastonbury. If so then fair enough - although I think perhaps you are placing too much emphasis on contrition.

If it was clear that it was a commentary and not what he believed then I'd have no issue with his lyrics.

The fact remains: he's been asked to clarify which it is on countless occasions; he's never indicated that it's a commentary he doesn't believe in himself, and has indicated (tho only indicated - I'm aware he's not stated categorically) that it is what he believes himself.

It's not contrition I would want, but clarification. He's chosen not to clarify, and the result of that choice comes back on him. His choice, his consequences.

We live in a society that considers violence to be wrong as a matter of course unless there is a provable defence. Eminem being in the wrong is not in dispute here - it's this wafer-thin justification of just about everything else - even things which are criminal. Even on the drugs point it seems that Doherty's wilful and criminal breach of his probation seems to be ok as long as he isn't homophobic.

He is an addict. That means it is not something which he has complete free choice over. That means it cannot be a "wilful" breach.

That of course doesn't excuse him from being a twat that plays up to it.

But it was found by a court - unless you're saying you are ok with disagreeing with a court's determinations when it suits - in which case you'd have to accept the 'no smoke without fire' arguments of people citing Pete Townshend.

No, that argument was put forwards by a copper and accepted by a licencing hearing, a totally different thing to what you've said above.

Being someone that's attended many licence hearings, I'm confident that that licencing hearing would have already decided they weren't going to issue the licence, and would had prompted the other organisations involved (the police, etc) to come up with reasons that would stand up to legal scrutiny if their decision was appealed

It is a fine line making moral judgments in one area and not another.

Some moral judgements are more clear cut than others. Because there's no disputing Eminem's lyrics or his choice to stand behind them, that becomes clear cut.

[fezzyeads]

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