Eminem?

[eFestivals]

I tell you what, if Gil Scott Heron can play, who's recoreded some very dodgy homophobic stuff in his time, why not Eminem? those lauding the festival spirit (that's you Neil, mate ) also seemed quite happy that GSH was playing.

Where's the difference?

I'm not lauding any festival spirit. I'm repeating what has said to me in the past about the possibility of Eminem playing Glastonbury.

I'm far from familiar with GSH'S stuff, and until this moment I wasn't aware of what you're saying about his lyrics. But if it's true then I'm very disappointed.

However, can I ask the date of those lyrics? Given that GSH has been a performer since the days when homophobia was the norm, perhaps that's why? And perhaps he's done what Eminem has refused to do, and condemned his own words since? Does GSH still perform those songs?

The little I do know about GSH is that he's written lots of lyrics which condemn discrimination ("white boy on the moon" is it called?, as one example) - something that Eminem isn't known for.

So perhaps this isn't a fair like-to-like comparison?

[Tugger2k]

I’m ready to make everyone’s throats ache. You faggots keep egging me on till I have you at knife point, then you beg me to stop?

[klb]

From Eminem's 'Criminal' ('Marshall Mathers LP', 2000):

"A lot of people think that.. what I say on records

Or what I talk about on a record, that I actually do in real life or that I believe in it

Or if I say that, I wanna kill somebody, that.. I'm actually gonna do it

Or that I believe in it

Well, shit.. if you believe that

Then I'll kill you"

I'm sure this is LITERAL and not an ACT! ;D

[eFestivals]

actually they harm alot of people as most of them end up with no money and end up robbing people

A comment you were only able to give credibility by cutting out other words of mine.

So no credibility at all.

[loosechange]

eynid blyton?

[Langdale Wolf]

lovely man!

[.jay.]

Golly! Blyton 'is not guilty of race slurs'

Edited March 4, 2010 by .jay.

[fezzyeads]

From Eminem's 'Criminal' ('Marshall Mathers LP', 2000):

"A lot of people think that.. what I say on records

Or what I talk about on a record, that I actually do in real life or that I believe in it

Or if I say that, I wanna kill somebody, that.. I'm actually gonna do it

Or that I believe in it

Well, shit.. if you believe that

Then I'll kill you"

I'm sure this is LITERAL and not an ACT! ;D

[eFestivals]

Neil i sense your on the wind up here.

Your now stating that in Plan B's lyrics he is not agreeing with them but you state earlier on in the thread about eminems homophobic views but cannot recall a track by him were he airs these views.

So your basically basing your opinion on something you have not heard personally more on what you have seen on tv by way of gay rights activists swinging some hand bags and kicking up a fuss.

Is it only gay rights groups that have commented on Eminem's homophobic lyrics, or do those comments also include many from the often-homophobic-themselves tabloids?

[Mardy]

I'm not lauding any festival spirit. I'm repeating what has said to me in the past about the possibility of Eminem playing Glastonbury.

I'm far from familiar with GSH'S stuff, and until this moment I wasn't aware of what you're saying about his lyrics. But if it's true then I'm very disappointed.

However, can I ask the date of those lyrics? Given that GSH has been a performer since the days when homophobia was the norm, perhaps that's why? And perhaps he's done what Eminem has refused to do, and condemned his own words since? Does GSH still perform those songs?

The little I do know about GSH is that he's written lots of lyrics which condemn discrimination ("white boy on the moon" is it called?, as one example) - something that Eminem isn't known for.

So perhaps this isn't a fair like-to-like comparison?

[.jay.]

The dehumanisation is yours, via the belief that being a drug addict makes a person scum.

[Mardy]

As ever, I find message boards and forums really bad for this kind of discussion, much better over a pint and a bag of cheese and onion. It's all too easy for things to get really aggressive and polarised via the internet.

Peace

[Mardy]

[1mills]

Ahh one of the my favourite tracks goes onto rap.

My words are like a dagger with a jagged edge

That'll stab you in the head

whether you're a fag or lez

Or the homosex, hermaph or a trans-a-vest

Pants or dress - hate fags? The answer's "yes"

Homophobic? Nah, you're just heterophobic

Staring at my jeans, watching my genitals bulging (Ooh!)

That's my motherf**king balls, you'd better let go of em

They belong in my scrotum, you'll never get hold of em

Hey, it's me, Versace

Whoops, somebody shot me!

And I was just checking the mail

Get it? Checking the 'male'?

How many records you expecting to sell

after your second LP sends you directly to jail?

C'mon!-- Relax guy, I like gay men

Right, Ken? Give me an amen (AAA-men!)

Please Lord, this boy needs Jesus

Heal this child, help us destroy these demons

Edited March 4, 2010 by 1mills

[eFestivals]

I see what you're saying there, and definitely GSH has written about racial discrimination, definitely, but the two things aren't the same, homophobes come in all colours, creeds etc. I think that's really clear

I don't disagree.

But given that he has a side that campaigns for social justice, and your admission that those lyrics are very old, there's a more than decent chance he's wised up since I would think - as very many other people have done of a similar age to him.

I'm also quite interested in when homophobia was the norm, i think you're right, it was the norm way back when, but I also think unfortunately that it's the norm now, hence, Chris Moyles use of the word 'gay' etc.

I don't disagree with that either.

But it's certainly the case that homophobia is FAR less of the norm than it was in my youth, and that's a very good thing IMO.

In regard to the likes of Eminem to that, giving him a platform to repeat his homophobic lyrics increases the chances of that being reversed to some extent. If homophobia is seen as normal and acceptable (which an endorsement of the likes of Eminem helps do) then the chances of homophobia being seen as normal and acceptable in wider society again is increased.

[In transit]

I would say anyone trying to argue that Eminem's undoubtedly homophobic lyrics should disqualify him from Glastonbury but excusing any other possible crime is on fairly shaky ground.

If you argue that Eminem should be banned for inciting violence what about Dizzee who has openly admitted to actual violence and Pete Doherty who has been found by a court to incite violence at gigs?

I appreciate that for a lot of people homophobia is distinctly unpleasant and I can see the distinctions being drawn in people's heads. But logically and morally the argument is very weak.

[eFestivals]

(Which shows that the song is from point of view of character though)

But also gives no indication of what his own views are all the same.

[russycarps]

all these eminem lyrics being quoted are excruciatingly, painfully, embarrassingly bad.

Thank christ he will be nowhere near glastonbury in his life.

"Shocking" lyrics for angry teenagers. When you grow up and mature a bit you will burn with shame that you ever championed this helmet.

Edited March 4, 2010 by russycarps

[fezzyeads]

all these eminem lyrics being quoted are excruciatingly, painfully, embarrassingly bad.

Thank christ he will be nowhere near glastonbury in his life.

"Shocking" lyrics for angry teenagers. When you grow up and mature a bit you will burn with shame that you ever championed this helmet.

[1mills]

But also gives no indication of what his own views are all the same.

[russycarps]

Its Rap Music and the track is suppose to be a p*sstake.

What do you want deep, meaningful words.

Its Rap ffs.

[Tugger2k]

Its Rap Music and the track is suppose to be a p*sstake.

What do you want deep, meaningful words.

Its Rap ffs.

[Mardy]

Its Rap Music and the track is suppose to be a p*sstake.

What do you want deep, meaningful words.

Its Rap ffs.

[1mills]

It's embarrassing.

As has been your entire involvement in this thread. Pathetic even.

Edited March 4, 2010 by 1mills

[Jaydog]

My 2ps worth, not that anyone gives a f**k.

I'm sure, convinced that when eminem writes, he's writing in character, in a long established literary tradition, I don't for a moment think he's believing or meaning those things he says. Same as Dylan, same as Springsteen, same as a Bukowski short story, same as Raymond Carver, whoever you want to choose.