The "squeezed middle"

[eFestivals]

We are not talking about the "average" person... We are talking about the "squeezed middle".... I have no idea the points you are trying to make. Other than to show a total failure of understanding on mathematics.

The middle is not being squeezed. What part of that are YOU failing to understand?

They have been squeezing everyone else.

So who do you consider the "squeezed middle" to be...

a bunch of self-absorbed self-entitled ignorant pricks.

A bit too much like you, in fact.

[eFestivals]

And as usual you offer fuck all... Look on your shoulder and take off the chip

I offer the truth. You can't handle the truth, so you make it up.

[eFestivals]

You can't see past your dogma and you are being weighed down by that chip on your shoulder

are the well-off hard-done-by then Barry?

Or are they riding a wave of privilege?

[eFestivals]

No I don't think they are hard done by...

then there is no squeezed middle.

[eFestivals]

How so ?

If they're not hard done by they're not being pinched.

They're moaning because they're not as rich as they thought they'd be and want to be. They deserve to be rich, they're more important than other people. They're the 'hard working people' that Dave talks about.

They're talking about their sense of entitlement, that's all.

[eFestivals]

Do they deserve some level of sympathy and offer some concern for there well being... I say they do..

It's the same capitalism they've been happy enough to gain privilege by.

[eFestivals]

I know your next answer... They should lose their houses, declare bankrupt and so on... Because you hate them because they wanted a bit better house and dared to move up the career ladder etc...

because deep down its you is the uncaring c**t... Filled with hatred fuelled by your dogma.

Says the man who just doesn't get anything of it.

[eFestivals]

You really are crazy...

I made a factually correct statement, and you think it's crazy.

When a change happens, there's those who gain and those who lose. When the differences in society are being evened out, that's a good thing, but those who the difference is being taken from are always gonna moan.

You want govt to act to support those privileges, whether they're deserved or not. You want the govt to support the status quo, and to not allow things to change (hopefully for the better). You want the capitalism that allows you privilege to be suspended for you to keep your privileges.

And I'm crazy.

[eFestivals]

Nah you made your usual Dogma fuelled statement...

Everyone is fighting for scraps from the rich man's table.... To make out the guy and his wife earning £30k a year each and having just bought their first own as some sort of privileged person like Boris and his pals is laughable. Everyone outside of that top 1% is in the same boat of largely being screwed by that 1%.

To view the middle earners as some sort of privileged set and put them in the same bracket as Boris and his pals is fucking laughable.

You are a bit of a loon

Did I "make out" what you said? no I didn't.

Do I think the issues of someone on £40k should be addressed when the issues aren't addressed for someone on £20K? No I don't.

The reasons people might be on those differentials in the first place is capitalism, the same capitalism that the person on £40k is happy to reap the benefits and privileges of when it's going well for him, but he expects the poor man to have even less when it's not.

I'm applying a consistency that escapes you, but people like you never want to check your own privilege you only want to fuck others over to get it.

[windy_miller]

The "squeezed middle" only exist because people feel that they have to keep up with the Joneses and that they are entitled to certain privileges because they earn a decent salary.

If you are feeling "squeezed" on a £120,000 salary then it is simply a fact that you are utter shit at budgeting. If this bloke works in the finance sector (which I am guessing he does) then he should be fired.

[eFestivals]

The dream you propose as an alternative is something between North Korea at worse and China at best.... The guy on £20k would be way worse off under your commi utopia. No one will ever call you "Dear Leader" here

Ahhh, I see ... in your own utopia, there's not a jot of everything you have that you don't 100% deserve and 100% deserve to deprive others of.

Glad we've cleared that up.

Back in the real world - with stats, research, facts and figures all backing it up - to raise everyone below the average requires a drop from everyone above.

Until the likes of you are able to accept that reality, the world stays fucked at your request.

[eFestivals]

I haven't in principle got a problem with that and never had a problem with that

so why have you been arguing against it right here then?

If you want a better deal for the poorest, that's going to mean a worse deal for you. That's the price of equality*.

(* and to stop your usual idiot rant, I'm meaning "equality" in the democratic sense and not your idiot dogma sense.)

[kaosmark2]

Equality in what sense?

Equal opportunity? Equal wealth? Equal standard of living? Equal freedoms? Equal control over the government?

I mean, we fail on all of them, but most well-off people don't really want all those poor becoming as good as they are, just less grimy when they have to suffer their company.

[eFestivals]

Equality in what sense?

Equal opportunity? Equal wealth? Equal standard of living? Equal freedoms? Equal control over the government?

I'm meaning in the western capitalist sense. Meritocracy within a social democracy, if you like - rather than those with privileges getting to set the conditions for everyone else (which is what we have now).

I mean, we fail on all of them, but most well-off people don't really want all those poor becoming as good as they are, just less grimy when they have to suffer their company.

yep, that's the problem of people like Barry. They might be able to see that stuff is unfair on the poor, but it's not so unfair that the Barry-types believe they should actually have to give up anything they have to correct that unfairness, because that would be terribly unfair on the Barry-types.

To achieve change you have to want change and accept the changes, even the ones that impact back on you negatively.

Edited May 9, 2014 by eFestivals

[russycarps]

people like barry would not be prepared to sacrifice one of his 3 holidays a year even if it meant other people would be able to have one holiday a year if he did.

lifting people out of poverty is fantastic in theory, but when the reality involves giving up a slither of his luxuries, then it is quickly brushed under the carpet.

They justify their selfishness with emotional excuses like "I'm just trying to look out for my family" etc.

[eFestivals]

In you communist utopia...

Translation: Barry only ever does thick as pigshit.

[eFestivals]

Yes dear leader

as you're the smart guy, care to tell me how the capitalism I talked about is like North Korea?

[adam1234]

It's a difficult subject to breach especially on here when you will get shot down. But there are a hell of a lot of people who have lived off benefits their entire life and can't be bothered to get off their arse and get a job.

They then get given a free house big enough to fit their four kids in. They have a big flat screen tv, sky subscription, fags and alcohol. Get takeaways in because they can't be bothered to cook and send their kids to mcdonalds.

I see this everyday of my working life, it is not something I have read in the daily mail. So yes it is frustrating when you work hard that you have more and more taken away from you when you see people living in this way.

It does feel like the harder you work the more you have taken away. The less you work the more you get given. They are also the people who are always at the doctors, always ringing the emergency services.

[eFestivals]

You haven't said anything that can be commented on... Just thrown a few buzz words around. Your sort are good at that but terrible on talking substance

Everything you say and do is Red commi bullshit. Nothing you say here can outweigh that!

Yes, capitalism based in meritocracy and social democracy is red commie shit.

It's good that you're such a knowledgeable chap, eh?

Edited May 9, 2014 by eFestivals

[eFestivals]

It's a difficult subject to breach especially on here when you will get shot down. But there are a hell of a lot of people who have lived off benefits their entire life and can't be bothered to get off their arse and get a job.

there are not "a hell of a lot". That's a Daily Mail myth.

And when there's fewer jobs than there are people needing jobs, there will always be some people who are needing to live on benefits, so it makes no difference if it's one person for 50 years or ten people for five years each.

They then get given a free house big enough to fit their four kids in. They have a big flat screen tv, sky subscription, fags and alcohol. Get takeaways in because they can't be bothered to cook and send their kids to mcdonalds.

I see this everyday of my working life, it is not something I have read in the daily mail.

yep, people on benefits have money falling out of the sky, they don't get subsistance money, they get £50k+ a year so that they can afford every luxury available.

Can I suggest that you try just one month living on benefits, so that you're not talking out of your arse?

[pink_triangle]

I suppose it depends how you define "hell of a lot" but whatever your definition there are a hell of a lot more struggling, although these people may not be as interesting to discuss on tv/ newspapers.

[adam1234]

there are not "a hell of a lot".

yep, people on benefits have money falling out of the sky, they don't get subsistance money, they get £50k+ a year so that they can afford every luxury available.

Can I suggest that you try just one month living

on benefits, so that you're not talking out of your arse?

[adam1234]

I suppose it depends how you define "hell of a lot" but whatever your definition there are a hell of a lot more struggling, although these people may not be as interesting to discuss on tv/ newspapers.

Edited May 9, 2014 by adam1234

[eFestivals]

Its just another flavour of the commi bullshit...

yes, capitalism is commie shit.

It's good that you've cleared that up, eh?

[kaosmark2]

So you want people to work for less than minimum wage ? If there is a job to do they should be paid properly for it. The only exception I can think of is when someone is doing proper training for a skilled job. But to ask people to do a unskilled job for benefits is fucking awful. The government are already making people work for benefits and its vile.