Michael Eavis Controversy

[Teddington]

It's a company's money. A company's money should be used to make more money or it should be returned to shareholders.

The money in Ireland is parked doing nothing. It's only parked there for as long as taking it somewhere else is too costly in taxes in the opinion of Apple.

And yet it's not companies that should decide how money is taxed but govts. It's not "Ireland" money; Ireland is happy to admit that, and so it's not liable for taxes in Ireland - but it is elsewhere. Ireland are complicit in helping Apple avoid those taxes.

At the end of the day, what this 'parked' money is doing is causing there not to be the jobs that would be created by that money if something 'proper' (in the eyes of company ideals) was done with it.

It's costing hundreds of thousands of lost jobs somewhere in the world, and it's causing a massive productivity loss to the capitalist system.

We are *ALL* the poorer for it.

[mrtourette]

It's a company's money. A company's money should be used to make more money or it should be returned to shareholders.

The money in Ireland is parked doing nothing. It's only parked there for as long as taking it somewhere else is too costly in taxes in the opinion of Apple.

And yet it's not companies that should decide how money is taxed but govts. It's not "Ireland" money; Ireland is happy to admit that, and so it's not liable for taxes in Ireland - but it is elsewhere. Ireland are complicit in helping Apple avoid those taxes.

At the end of the day, what this 'parked' money is doing is causing there not to be the jobs that would be created by that money if something 'proper' (in the eyes of company ideals) was done with it.

It's costing hundreds of thousands of lost jobs somewhere in the world, and it's causing a massive productivity loss to the capitalist system.

We are *ALL* the poorer for it.

Edited May 24, 2013 by mrtourette

[mrtourette]

Well I dont think I told u to fuck off........and there is no need to condescend or patronize

[bamber]

Apple is now not only the richest company in the world, it is the richest company that has ever been, yet they only employ around 6000 people in their home country the USA. The company and their overpriced, overrated products, built by a million exploited workers in countries other than the USA is a disgrace. If anyone can afford to to pay the taxes due on them it's Apple, yet they choose not not and get away with it. I suggest you all stop buying their products and close your i-tunes account now.

Edited May 24, 2013 by bamber

[eFestivals]

You are glossing over a key point.

There is a difference between people offering their services for a guaranteed return e.g.Doctors/Nurses and people willing to INVEST money with the HOPE of a return.

Are you really trying to suggest that only the capitalists want to improve the health of other people? You couldn't get more ridiculous.

Firstly, most of those people do not "invest" in the company, they invest in themselves. Nothing of an investment in the existing shares of an established company is to the benefit of that company, it's to the benefit of only of the person the shares were sold by.

And for the many nmew biotech companies thqat form each year, they're not investing the in the cure that might come out of it, they're investing only for a hoped-for personal profit. In most cases the new companies that do give a massive return do so on a basis of failure but by convincing others there's a slim chance what they're working on will pan out successfully (but it doesn't).

But anyway, investment for profit is this town's game and the only game in town right now. So it's not really any surprise that profitable investments lead to other attempts at profitable investments.

But nothing of those cash investments deliver a bean or a turd. They can only deliver what the *TRUE* brains (or dunces) are able to deliver.

Can a state take over these things and do better? Cuba gives the answers for health.

Edited May 24, 2013 by eFestivals

[eFestivals]

Apple is now not only the richest company in the world, it is the richest company that has ever been, yet they only employ around 6000 people in their home country the USA. The company and their overpriced, overrated products, built by a million exploited workers in countries other than the USA is a disgrace. If anyone can afford to to pay the taxes due on them it's Apple, yet they choose not not and get away with it. I suggest you all stop buying their products and close your i-tunes account now.

the reason it happens is because the top bosses have pay-packets that are related to share-prices, and repatriating the money will cause the share-price to crash.

For many years those buying Apple shares are taking a punt on Apple being able to convince the USA govt that they should be able to repatriate this money free of all taxes. They are - literally - betting on the govt letting Apple live tax-free.

That's what the right and capitalists bring you. The only moral in the world is their own money.

Apple is a huge accounting scam, and their 'champions' can't see it or don't want to see it.

Edited May 24, 2013 by eFestivals

[eFestivals]

Well I dont think I told u to fuck off........and there is no need to condescend or patronize

I didn't tell you to 'fuck off' either. I told you to 'fuck orf'. It was a deliberate difference.

You clearly didn't get why I did, so it wasn't condescending of me to point out that you didn't.

The 'other things to do' was and is correct. I don't have time to educate you from the ground upwards, which you'd needc to get what I was saying.

[russycarps]

I sort of agree with this. But, just to take an example... Should we be happy with reducing wages & a lower standard of living in the UK, because more jobs are moving to China or India - because it's helping them to improve their quality of life?

It's a really difficult question - whilst I'm very conscious of how privileged the western world is, it's still hard to accept we have to go downhill, to support other parts of the world.

So what's the answer?

[ThomThomDrum]

I didn't tell you to 'fuck off' either. I told you to 'fuck orf'. It was a deliberate difference.

You clearly didn't get why I did, so it wasn't condescending of me to point out that you didn't.

The 'other things to do' was and is correct. I don't have time to educate you from the ground upwards, which you'd needc to get what I was saying.

[eFestivals]

Neil, I actually agree with a fair amount of what you say, but at times you just seem to be quite arrogant.........the whole I didn't tell you to 'fuck off' either.

is testimony to that from where I sit...........anyway lets leave it there as you say. If I seem to pick you up wrong Im sorry, but I think you argue with some on here believing they believe in what they type about rather than just typing how they see things. There is a difference to me

But you said it was greedy of a country to collect taxes or for it's taxpayers to want them to collect taxes.

We know what the tax rates are (if they apply to us) and how they should be applied in all reasonableness. Those rates have been (by the rules of that democratic system) set by 'the people', and it's not greedy of 'the people' to expect those rates and rules to be complied with - both to the letter AND in spirit.

Working to that is not 'greed', it's a perfectly reasonable, fair, and justifiable stance.

Artificially creating a structure to work around what is reasonable is what is greedy.

If we were having this convo in relation to some sort of punitive tax rates being applied to companies you might have a point, but the tax rates applied to companies have got steadily lower and not greater over recent time, and yet companies are going to ever greater efforts to work around them. Apple demanded a 50% cut of the USA govt the other day (and also an 80+% cut) - and are essentially trying to blackmail them into it.

They're not doing that for anything but their own greed.

Edited May 24, 2013 by eFestivals

[ThomThomDrum]

But you said it was greedy of a country to collect taxes or for it's taxpayers to want them to collect taxes.

Edited May 24, 2013 by ThomThomDrum

[Witty username here]

Perhaps Apple should have considered the UK, given that essentially the same tax avoidance mechanisms are available to corporations through the City.

The Apple money doesn't end up resting in Irish banks btw - it's (the 'double Irish' tax avoidance mechanism) merely a conduit for electronic transfers that end up in actual tax havens. And while Apple only employ 4000 people in Ireland, the overall employment and export figures here dependent on multinational- friendly taxation are massive. Irish jobs - and a lot of them, are very much on the line. 90% of our exports are multi-national (primarily pharma and tech) based.

Again - Ireland has to compete against other states that employ pretty much equivalent arrangements, so it's pretty naive to expect us to walk away from the only area of our economy (agriculture excepted) that's actually in growth.

Edited May 24, 2013 by Witty username here