Football 2011-2012

[strummer77]

+

Bummer. That's a Europa League place gone. Either Liverpool or Cardiff get one. Got to hope the FA cup finalists are between either big 6 teams or us now. That or hope to pip Arsenal to 5th.... Cracking game though.

[kaosmark2]

Had to turn down a ticket for that tonight... but still made up. What a result. Pleased for Kenny after the stick he's been getting and takes the pressure off Saturday. Now we've just got to not fuck it up versus Cardiff, who aren't a bad side themselves. Can't afford to do what Arsenal did last year.

Team were all fantastic tonight. Bellamy for no money has been a fantastic signing.

[strummer77]

Ouch. That sucks.

Yeah, cracking game, great result for Liverpool. There's been a bit of a blip in performances of late, but every team goes through them, it's how quickly you bounce back. Bellamy was fantastic again, but it was Kuyt and Henderson who really surprised me today. First good display I've seen from Kuyt all season, and Henderson looked like he's growing and might start to justify the money spunked on him. Downing was still poor though. Whenever he tried to move a ball any distance, or at any pace or any height, he scuffed it. Fine playing short balls, which is at least an improvement on many games this season, but I'm prepared to bet he lost the ball in the City half more than any other player.

Edited January 26, 2012 by strummer77

[kaosmark2]

Ah sucks a bit, but hopefully there will be more chances...

Kuyt was back to his best, especially second half tonight. Really hope we win it for him as he hasn't won a medal with us despite his tireless efforts. Actually though Downing had a *better* game tonight. Not a £20m game, but one where he looked a bit like he did at the start of the season: a decent footballer. Yeah Henderson showed a few glimpses of brilliance tonight. He can be a very tidy player that lad, he just needs to get a bit more involved and have a bit more confidence. He'll get there slowly though.

All in all... a cup final. As far as I'm concerned we're 90 minutes away from having a good season. Pleased. Just hope we get a bargain before the end of the window to help us on our way.

Oh and fair play to Joe Hart. What a top top goalkeeper. Seems a nice bloke too.

[eFestivals]

Liverpool got a bit lucky with the penalty last night. It was the sort of thing that gets given sometimes, but mostly it doesn't. Even so, over the two games they were the better team so were just about deserved winners.

And I reckon they can be pleased about bettering City over the two games, which shows yet again how close they are from some angles of being right up there as the best. if the likes of Downing managed more of his better play for all parts of the game they would be.

[kaosmark2]

Liverpool got a bit lucky with the penalty last night. It was the sort of thing that gets given sometimes, but mostly it doesn't. Even so, over the two games they were the better team so were just about deserved winners.

And I reckon they can be pleased about bettering City over the two games, which shows yet again how close they are from some angles of being right up there as the best. if the likes of Downing managed more of his better play for all parts of the game they would be.

Edited January 26, 2012 by kaosmark2

[eFestivals]

And the Dzeko appeal should have been a pen (although I understand why the ref didn't see it).

I missed that. I must have stepped outside to have a fag.

Downing needs to sort out playing the ball. At times he can be good running with it, laying it off, etc. but I haven't seen a good cross or shot from him all season.

yeah, he's so frustrating. He makes some pretty decent runs down the wings, gets into good positions, etc - and then ballons the ball into row z.

The reason you've not seen as good cross or shot from him all season is because he's not scored a prem goal or even had a prem assist. And despite ther good play he does manage I can't really see that changing.

[kaosmark2]

I missed that. I must have stepped outside to have a fag.

yeah, he's so frustrating. He makes some pretty decent runs down the wings, gets into good positions, etc - and then ballons the ball into row z.

The reason you've not seen as good cross or shot from him all season is because he's not scored a prem goal or even had a prem assist. And despite ther good play he does manage I can't really see that changing.

[The Nal]

Daglish has a handy number doesn't he?. £150m spent, 6th or 7th place finish and a piss pot final. Couple of tears because they win the semis in the piss pot and hes a hero.

[eFestivals]

Daglish has a handy number doesn't he?. £150m spent, 6th or 7th place finish and a piss pot final. Couple of tears because they win the semis in the piss pot and hes a hero.

a team that's beaten the best in the league over two legs - and without their runaway best player too. A team that should put Utd out of the cup at the weekend as well.

It's not quite there yet, but it's mightily close. And without spending the sums that City, Spurs and Chelski have to reach those heights.

Carroll's a dud yep, but it's also a dud that was bought when Dalglish was only temporary manager so was unlikely to have had much say about. If that money had been spent on someone half decent I've little doubt they'd be challenging for the title.

[The Nal]

a team that's beaten the best in the league over two legs - and without their runaway best player too. A team that should put Utd out of the cup at the weekend as well.

Edited January 26, 2012 by The Nal

[jammy2211]

a team that's beaten the best in the league over two legs - and without their runaway best player too. A team that should put Utd out of the cup at the weekend as well.

It's not quite there yet, but it's mightily close. And without spending the sums that City, Spurs and Chelski have to reach those heights.

Carroll's a dud yep, but it's also a dud that was bought when Dalglish was only temporary manager so was unlikely to have had much say about. If that money had been spent on someone half decent I've little doubt they'd be challenging for the title.

[The Nal]

At the moment Carroll is the only dud but I'm not sure Downing, Adam, Henderson are ever going to be top 4 players - which if they arn't then makes them a waste of money too.

Edited January 26, 2012 by The Nal

[strummer77]

Spurs have spent a lot less then Liverpool in terms of raw spend and net spend over the past 3 years and further back - with a much lower wage structure too (VDV is highest play at around £70k). Not sure what Liverpools highest is but Torres was nearing £200k wasn't it? it was £1xxk anyway... I think that crappy serb was over £100k too... I can't even remember his name lol.

[eFestivals]

Why should they? This is a team who put in the worst performance in living memory vs Bolton last week. Spineless.

they're a team who are beating just about all of the big teams. It's just the weaker ones they're coming a cropper against.

I said 'should' and I mean 'should' and not 'will'. I'm confident that Liverpool will dominate the match (as they've done just about continually this season), but less confident that that dominance will pan out as a win, especially as Utd are masters of soaking it up and hitting teams on the break. But on balance I'd say that a Liverpool win is the most likely result.

City haven't been great recently either. Lost to West Brom, were really lucky against Spurs etc.

True, City aren't as strong as there were eariler in the season. But that applies to Saturday's opponents too.

What "heights"? And they have spent more than Spurs, and Chelski for that matter, in the last 5 years. The fact that they sold 3 of their 4 best players may balance the net spend alright but they're not running a bank.

Spurs had ten years of big net spends upgrading their team to where they are now. City did much the same thing in a few seasons. Chelsea are still spunking the money.

Liverpool's squad was threadbare a year ago. Spending was necessary for them in the summer, just as it was for Utd (tho for different reasons and a different amount).

FFS, it's rather ridiculous if fans of the more stupid type don't think teams other than their own aren't allowed to try and improve their squad.

Well thats 35 million quid question. We don't know.

Comoli works on the "stat" measure of a player and signs them as such. Henderson was signed 100% through that metric, apparently. Seems a nothing player to me though.

And its quite clear now that Andy Carroll is the worst transfer in the 150 year history of football.

We don't know, but I think it's hugely unlikely that a temporary manager would be given the final say on transfers over the guy who was brought in to specifically manage transfers in and out of the club.

All the same I'd expect that Dalglish's opinion was sought, and he probably gave it his approval - but that conversation also including "and do you think we should pay £35M for him?" is probably far less likely.

From the snippets that have come out about buying Carroll an extra £5M was seemingly tagged on at the last minute (and supposedly caused Liverpool to up the Torres sell fee by the same). I doubt those parts of that business were run past Dalglish.

As for the worst, he's dreadful, yep. But there's plenty of others over the years with huge fanfares and hugely admiring words from managers that can be pointed to. One of them that I'd not heard of for years cropped up in a lower-level Euro match (I forget which) with an English team fairly recently, and I laughed my socks off remembering what was said about that supposed bargain buy that was going to be all those seagulls and much much more besides.

It's not only Kenny &/or Liverpool that can fuck up hugely you know.

[strummer77]

What "heights"? And they have spent more than Spurs, and Chelski for that matter, in the last 5 years. The fact that they sold 3 of their 4 best players may balance the net spend alright but they're not running a bank.

Edited January 26, 2012 by strummer77

[eFestivals]

I said it earlier but Daglish is lucky to have the rep he has as most managers would be under pressure by now. If they can't finish above a recently promoted Newcastle or 'everything must go' Arsenal after spending the cash they have then somethings wrong. At the moment Carroll is the only dud but I'm not sure Downing, Adam, Henderson are ever going to be top 4 players - which if they arn't then makes them a waste of money too.

Hmmm, not sure about that.

Most of the bought-in players haven't been the best successes, and the league position isn't great, but the footie is hugely improved - and that's defo Dalglish's doing.

Adam probably isn't Dalglish's doing, seeing as L'pool were trying to buy him even before Dalglish was manager. And he was a cheapie in relative terms too, and while he might not be the perfect top-four standard he probably still classes as bargain.

Henderson is going to be good. They paid a lot for him, but he'll prove worth the money. The view of him is a little warped because he got played on the wing in his early L'pool games and he's not up to that (yet?). He's far better playing more centrally, and once he stops feeling like the new boy he's going to make a much bigger impact I reckon.

Downing is half and half. He's a player I'd have swerved, but having said that there's part's of his play which are better than I'd have thought he was capable of. Shame he's so shit with those other parts.

The fact remains that Liverpool are more than capable of holding their own - and better - with the 'big' teams above them. That gets to prove that it's only really with their league position they're failing right now, rather than with who they've bought. The points they've dropped have been almost all against teams they're easily capable of beating as proven by their results against the teams above them.

To get right to the top and ensure they remain there they'll need to upgrade a few players yet, but these things take time. There's no team that goes on a spending spree and is an instant winner.

[eFestivals]

Downing is fucking gash. Oh sure he went by the full back once or twice last night and now hes showing "signs of improvement". Despite the fact hes been appalling for the other 20 games he played for them.

Downing is gash, yep.

But he's been making good runs down the wing and getting round defenders all season - better than nearly every other wide player.

It's just that what comes after that is dreadful every single time.

Theres a reason Liverpool are 7th. Its because they have the 7th best set of players in the league.

I can't argue with that, the table doesn't lie.

But of all the teams around the top they're the team that will get above the others with just the smallest upgrade in quality. Unfortunately, that 'upgrade' involves a fair few players rather than them than needing to just bring one player in, so I'm not expecting it imminently.

Having said that, someone who can put the ball in the back of the net with more consistency would be a very good start. If just half of all those posts & crossbars had been goals it's probably the case that they'd be top of the league now (I'd have to check which matches they've been in to see if that's actually true).

But they've spent the third most on players. People don't seem to realise this. Liverpool have been in the top 3 big spenders in British football since the early 1970s.

While they might have "spent the third most on players" it's also the case that they've sold the highest value in players.

I don't remember you ignoring the £80M Utd got in for skippy in the way you're doing here for L'pool.

And while L'pool might be big spenders for 30 years at least it's mostly been spent on football and not gifts to bankers and w*nkers.

[The Nal]

FFS, it's rather ridiculous if fans of the more stupid type don't think teams other than their own aren't allowed to try and improve their squad.

Edited January 26, 2012 by The Nal

[strummer77]

I've no problem with the Utd/Liverpool rivalry, pisstaking etc. Just hope Saturday goes off well. Don't think it will though.

Yet! Give Jones, Smalling, Hernandez, Cleverly, De Gea and Welbeck another two years (they'll all still be under 24) and see where the team is then. Scholes, Beckham and Red Nev weren't prem class in their first season. Either was Ronaldo. Or Nani. Giggs was, but hes an exception.

[eFestivals]

Good players though. Alonso. That sale still bemuses me!

Great player in that instancwe, absolutely superb. Rafa fucking him off was probably Rafa's single biggest mistake.

Then again, if Rafa hadn't fucked him off I doubt he'd have stayed at L'pool for more than other season than he did. He'd also indicated a desire to play at one of the big Spanish clubs.

Actually come to think of it, Utd haven't spent 100% of that money on anyone!

yeah they have - bankers and w*nkers.

Which when it comes down to it is a bigger waste of money than Carroll. At least Liverpool got something for their spend.

[The Nal]

At least Liverpool got something for their spend.

[strummer77]

Great player in that instancwe, absolutely superb. Rafa fucking him off was probably Rafa's single biggest mistake.

Then again, if Rafa hadn't fucked him off I doubt he'd have stayed at L'pool for more than other season than he did. He'd also indicated a desire to play at one of the big Spanish clubs.

[eFestivals]

Yeah, the phrase "ah for fucks sake" everytime he gets the ball!

If he gets the ball you mean. I noticed that the other players built a bypass again in the few minutes he was on the pitch last night.

It's amusement value at least, which is more than you/Utd get from the bankers and w*nkers.

[eFestivals]

He asked to go. We tried to keep him that summer but he wanted off. Four seasons out of a Spaniard was a decent return and we sold him for £30m.

He was put off a bit when we tried to sell him a season earlier but then he had been poor the year before, then he had a great season and wanted to go.

Yep, he asked to go - but some of that at least was brought about by Rafa having tried selling him the summer before. If you don't feel wanted you'll probably go somewhere that you do.