The Order of Things......

[rabid]

yeah, schrodinger's cat, which is a macroscopic being, but its a microscopic quantum phenomena (e.g. decaying atom) that leads to the entangled state

[worm]

Do stop with the irrelevant-at-this-point sementics, eh?

[eFestivals]

I'm saying that the world is a blank canvas. Sensation determines it, including their sense of self.

Answer the bleeding question.

You've said that a person starts as a blank canvas. Therefore, as a blank canvas that has to be prior to any sensations, yes?

[worm]

You've said that a person starts as a blank canvas. Therefore, as a blank canvas that has to be prior to any sensations, yes?

[eFestivals]

I believe in a blank slate because I do not believe that we are born with knowledge.

What I'm saying is that sensation comes before the person. The experience comes before everything.

then they're not a blank canvas and you're talking gibberish.

You have nothing sensible to say. You're talking worthless and contradictory bollocks. I'm done.

Edited March 30, 2011 by eFestivals

[worm]

then they're not a blank canvas and you're talking gibberish.

Edited March 30, 2011 by worm

[eFestivals]

Yes they are. They're just not a person yet. They're an experience.

A "blank canvas" is a synonym for "nothing", zero, zilch, an empty vessel.

An "experience" is something, not nothing.

Nothing can be both at once. You're talking gibberish. You have nothing sensible to say.

You're talking worthless and contradictory bollocks.

[worm]

A "blank canvas" is a synonym for "nothing", zero, zilch, an empty vessel.

An "experience" is something, not nothing.

[Kizzie]

Tabula Rasa (a blank canvas) means to have no knowledge prior to experience.

[worm]

You know old Locke also had a theory that when the Tabula Rasa was full....it was full, you couldn't cram any more knowledge in there. Some individual's Tabula Rasa's were bigger than others and could hold more....some couldn't hold very much at all.

Edited March 30, 2011 by worm

[eFestivals]

Tabula Rasa (a blank canvas) means to have no knowledge prior to experience.

Therefore, as a blank canvas that has to be prior to any sensations, yes?

[Kizzie]

I'm not trying to extol Lockean theories of cognition, nor am I very fond of his theories of political autonomy for that matter. I was just providing that particular quote because it sums it up very well.

It doesn't actually say anything about innate knowledge, it points out that if there is then it is unknowable without a cultural phrasing. Being innately evil in one culture may be seen as good so you'll have to be innately good to be evil - resulting in nonsense. It's actually very Miltonesque/Shakespearean.

[worm]

Actually it was a bit of a joke I was trying to make, nevermind

[worm]

how does that fit with discovering parts of the universe, and what it's made of, by instruments that measure things that we have no knowledge of (without such instruments)?

we can't see infra-red but we accept that it's there....

[eFestivals]

and none of it made any refernce to my point

a common problem with those who don't wish to discuss but wish to lecture, as tho only they know anything about anything.

[eFestivals]

Tabula Rasa (a blank canvas) means to have no knowledge prior to experience.

Therefore, as a blank canvas that has to be prior to any sensations, yes?

[worm]

and none of it made any refernce to my point

[worm]

a tree falls in a forest and makes a sound.

[worm]

Therefore, as a blank canvas that has to be prior to any sensations, yes?

Edited March 30, 2011 by worm

[eFestivals]

There's no knowledge prior to experience.

Which is a blank canvas, because it is prior to any experience (of sensations) - yes?

[worm]

No, you're just asking irrelevant questions.

[llcoolphil]

You determine what it is by what it isn't

[worm]

Which is a blank canvas, because it is prior to any experience (of sensations) - yes?

[worm]

That cant be so. At some point you have to determine for the first time.

Edited March 30, 2011 by worm

[eFestivals]

No, you're just asking irrelevant questions.

No I'm not.

I'm asking for definitions, without which it's not possible to have any sensible discussion.

"no knowledge" is nothing, a void, an empty space, a blank canvas yet to be painted - yes?

So, "a person yet to be activated" - a person devoid of all experiences, a person yet to have any sensations, a person at the point before they come into existence, a person about to be born (or at least, before any awareness, whenever that awareness might start) - is in that state of no knowledge. Yes?