Football 2010-2011

[eFestivals]

habitual diving from berbatov and opertunist diving from walcott. yes i get that, hence my point. you'll get it if i keep saying it in different ways. seen as i can't be arsed though, i'll leave you beliving that you're impartial and judge man utd and arsenal on an equal basis.

Your (previous) point was that they were identical in every way. Now you accept they're not, but still try to claim yourself as right: you can't be right with both of two conflicting things. You're a nutter.

And your fantasies are never ending. Nowhere here have I said I'm judging man utd and arsenal on an equal basis - which just gets to show there's no end to things you'll make up out of nothing to 'prove' a point that was never made in the first place.

Why aren't I considering them on an equal basis? Cos Arsenal don't have the solid and irrefutable history that Utd of do of diving to win games - and me saying that Utd do is the only point I was choosing to make here.

Everything else is you licking your own shitty arse and tasting caviar.

Edited January 11, 2011 by eFestivals

[Benj]

Only cos they get away with murder. We once had a goal disallowed for 'jumping higher than Roy Keane'. Im still bitter about it.

[Benj]

That just shows that they're better at it. Man Utd are the best team in the league at cheating - by miles. You can thank Ferguson for that.

Edited January 11, 2011 by Benj

[The Nal]

if anyone knows a decent site for stats by the way, please link it up

[eFestivals]

Arsenal (last year at least) were awarded more free kicks than Utd, so if Utd are horrific cheats, then they're obviously not that good at it, despite Worm claiming they're the best in the world at cheating

That doesn't necessarily hold true.

Hypothetically, every foul awarded to Utd could be an undeserved one (by diving or whatever), while every one for another team might be genuine. The numbers provide no proof by themselves.

From my perspective, where Utd excel with such things is by making stopping tackles on opponents a little less fierce than is managed by other teams, with the result being that they seem to pick up fewer cards for it than other teams; it's quite a skill to manage that (if it's nowt to do with unequal reffing of course). And with diving, they seem to get the more important decisions more often than other teams - it's certainly the case that they've got two results against Liverpool in less than year by doing so.

Edited January 11, 2011 by eFestivals

[Benj]

That doesn't necessarily hold true.

Hypothetically, every foul awarded to Utd could be an undeserved one (by diving or whatever), while every one for another team might be genuine. The numbers provide no proof by themselves.

From my perspective, where Utd excel with such things is by making stopping tackles on opponents a little less fierce than is managed by other teams, with the result being that they seem to pick up fewer cards for it than other teams; it's quite a skill to manage that (if it's nowt to do with unequal reffing of course). And with diving, they seem to get the more important decisions more often than other teams - it's certainly the case that they've got two results against Liverpool in less than year by doing so.

[Steve P]

Got tickets for our home game against Barca

[ampersand]

Got tickets for our home game against Barca

[The Nal]

From my perspective, where Utd excel with such things is by making stopping tackles on opponents a little less fierce than is managed by other teams, with the result being that they seem to pick up fewer cards for it than other teams; it's quite a skill to manage that (if it's nowt to do with unequal reffing of course).

Edited January 11, 2011 by The Nal

[Steve P]

what's the price range for that one?

[worm]

No.

Edited January 11, 2011 by worm

[Benj]

How long did Utd moan about the obvious offside AND handball against the Brummies last month? About an hour and that was it. That bad decision directly cost Utd two points. Kind of a big deal considering Chelski won the league by one point last season. These decisions happen. Thing is, there was actually contact with Berba at the weekend, it was a stupid challenge too but nobody is analysing Aggers defending are they?

[worm]

Apologies (as in my post to Phil) I meant less free kicks given to them

http://goonertalk.com/2010/02/28/arsenal-are-the-second-most-fouled-team-in-the-premier-league/

Its hard to say they're the biggest cheats when they're given less free kicks than Fulham and Hull!

Edit- and here is a later list

http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/606/A64338410

if anyone knows a decent site for stats by the way, please link it up

Edited January 11, 2011 by worm

[The Nal]

To be honest, I think its only us banging on about it no here, everyone lost interest yonks ago, because as you say, shit happens, Liverpool will win some matches by cheating this year and Im sure will lose some more too, as will every other team in the League.

[TheGayTent]

All very boring - I'm off to the Boleyn. See ya

[fraser_k]

£65 a ticket, all that was left. And chances are we'll lose, but i couldn't give a f#ck

[Benj]

Firstly, skill is a qualitative measure, not a quantitative one. Secondly, you can't judge the amount of times someone has cheated by the amount of fouls they've been given.

Think of what the word cheating means (gaining a competative advantage through exploiting the rules) and then watch a Man Utd performance while considering the tactics (such as badgering the ref, baiting other teams into fouls, diving, conning the ref, deceiving the ref, getting away with cards because they're brand Man Utd etc).

[ampersand]

£65 a ticket to see the best team in the world against Arsenal, worth the money I reckon!

[worm]

I have and I've also seen Liverpool do it, I've seen Arsenal do it, I've seen Everton do it, I've seen Sunderland do it. They all do it.

[The Nal]

i can't wait for the nou camp game! just hope both live up to the hype!

[Benj]

And as I've said to you twice now, the argument is not that Man Utd are the only ones to do it. It's that they are the best at it and get the greatest rewards from it.

[ampersand]

When does the CL start again?

[eFestivals]

You sound more and more like a daft conspiracy theorist with every post! It will all be the Jews fault by Thursday!

you might be a racist c**t but I'm not thanks.

Now they're employing wizardy to make their tackles look less fierce!

no, they're employing one of the skills they've been bought for.

The numbers offer no proof but your obviously biased viewpoint that Utd cheat more than other teams is complete fact!

So what you're saying is that you have nothing. I know. Meanwhile, I have the fact of two dives equalling two wins.

Pure numbers are always the most reliable indicator

if you think that's true then you're extremely foolish. Numbers mean absolutely nothing out of all context.

[eFestivals]

No issue with that whatsoever. It’s a skill yes, and if Utd (Vidic in particular) can push the law to 105% and get away with it, great! Same for any other team. Its called good defending.

No, it's called "cheating".

And there's that no shame again.

Youre reading too many tabloids or listening to the media too much. The media and Liverpool have gone bananas about this, totally over the top. Liverpool players posting pictures of Webb in a Utd jersey etc!! And people like you falling for it.

oh do f**k off. Nothing I've said has been led by anything aside from my own eyes.

How long did Utd moan about the obvious offside AND handball against the Brummies last month? About an hour and that was it.

how long did I moan after Sunday? Just the few seconds it took me to write the few words I did about Utd having no shame. And you've shown just above just how correct I was with those few words.

Everything else since has been because you and others - Utd fans - won't let it go. Get used to the fact that some fans of football don't like cheating and won't defend it as you will.

[eFestivals]

To be honest, I think its only us banging on about it no here, everyone lost interest yonks ago, because as you say, shit happens,

You're nearly right.

I'm not banging on about it, I'm simply standing behind the few words of comment I wished to make. Everything else is people like Nal trying to defend the indefensible, while I've stood behind what the likes of Nal has essentially agreed with.

If Nal and others had simply accepted that Utd have no shame (as proven by berba's own words) for what he's said himself was a dive, it would have been over here before 11am yesterday.