World Cup 2010

[eFestivals]

By your logic, stick Wayne Rooney in League Two and he can reasonably be expected to average 138 goals per season, injury permitting.

nope - but my logic does say that he'd score more goals than he does in the Prem.

Do tell me exactly where I've got that wrong.

You don't rate him, which sort of undermines my argument. But Christiano Ronaldo isn't considered one of the best players in the world because he regularly ripped Arsenal, Chelsea or Barcelona to shreds, but because he's clinical against the likes of Stoke, Newcastle and Real Mallorca. It's not the fact that he could do it against them, but his ruthless efficiency in doing so. Against bigger teams he's a renown choker.

No, I do rate skippy (at least, for his last two years at Utd) - it took a while for him to change from a show pony, with funnily enough, no end product just like what gets said about Walcott (but without anything like the same scrutiny that Walcott gets), into someone with an end product.

(And he was a few years older than Walcott's 20 when he found that end product ).

But yeah, I know what you mean about his play against better/weaker teams - but I always felt that was more to do with his attitude than his skills. He likes to show off, and you can't against the better teams .... so my take was that he didn't much bother at all about playing in those games, or if he did (he looked like he cared sometimes) then normally frustration at not getting the space he'd have liked would get the better of him early in a game, and then he'd give up.

The other thing to remember is the obstacles facing Crouch. A lot of the time he's played 4-5-1 with Gerrard and Lampard behind him. Lampard tends to shoot himself (with reason), while Gerrard turns into a complete moron whenever Crouch is on his team, whether for club or country. And then there's the fact that if you're playing in a 4-4-2 with Rooney or Owen you're not going to get a lot of the ball.

Yep, all that I agree with, but none of it is really relevant to how he might perform against a top international side. The only real proof will be him playing, but I'm far from confident.

[beLIEveR]

nope - but my logic does say that he'd score more goals than he does in the Prem.

Do tell me exactly where I've got that wrong.

[eFestivals]

I'm saying that a hat-trick against any Football League team (even the teams a mere division above L***n Town) is an achievement. It's nowhere near as big an achievement as doing it in the Premier League, but it's still not to be sniffed at. You're suggesting that it's routine.

not at all.

But it would be much easier to do for a player who's towards the top of the prem striker's list, all the same.

I'm saying that when Gerrard, Lampard and Rooney's metatarsals inevitably spontaneously combust on 11 June, I will not be shitting myself, because Crouch, Defoe and whoever Capello favours in midfield will do just as good a job. Are they as good? No. But I think they are as effective.

We're coming at this with much the same idea, but from different angles.

I started off by saying that all of the England strikers are pretty much as effective as each other, tho in a negative way - I don't see them (any of them, bar Rooney [tho that will prob be a stunner than a 'move']) being able to put away the few chances we'll get in a game against one of the better sides.

Defoe seems to be either in the game or nowhere, and mostly it's nowhere. Crouch generally needs ten chances to take one. Heskey just doesn't score.

And Rooney has a BIIIIGGGG habit - tho not latey, he's been great this season - of missing sitters, the sorts of chances that a top striker just shouldn't miss so often. I'm worried that he'll curl in a stunner from 20 yards early on, but miss several from two yards out that we need to win the game.

[beLIEveR]

We're coming at this with much the same idea, but from different angles.

[Kowalski]

With one crucial difference. You're saying that (while clearly talented) Rooney is vastly overrated. I'm saying that apart from Messi, Kaka and Ronaldo, there's no-one in the world to touch him.

[ampersand]

What has Kaka done this season? I don't even think Ronaldo has been particularly special.

Messi and Xavi definitely ahead of Rooney this season though.

[philipsteak]

Very nice, but you still need to look up the UK times of games.

[Kowalski]

you'd know more than me, but i've never heard kaka's name all season.

and i remember someone comparing him with sneijder and lolling.

[ampersand]

He's had a poor season in a team full of overpaid fannies. Could be on his way in the summer.

I quite like Sneijder actually. The Dutch have a decent squad for the World Cup, but perhaps may get let down by their defence.

[Cardboard Box City]

I don't even think Ronaldo has been particularly special.

[Cardboard Box City]

you'd know more than me, but i've never heard kaka's name all season.

and i remember someone comparing him with sneijder and lolling.

[wheelie123]

33 in 35? Surprised he gets a game!

Edited June 2, 2010 by wheelie123

[ampersand]

Im glad you pointed that out. Ronaldo was outstanding all season, he missed 7 weeks with injury and still scored 33 goals - the lad is a genius.

[ste4_20]

He's had a poor season in a team full of overpaid fannies. Could be on his way in the summer.

I quite like Sneijder actually. The Dutch have a decent squad for the World Cup, but perhaps may get let down by their defence.

[j...rox]

Kaka or Benzema, i'm sure one will be at Man City next season.

Also think another club to be taken over by Dubai, perhaps West Brom or Everton.

[j...rox]

Sorry wrong thread. On the england note, disgusted Johnson and Bent got dropped and we're left with Heskey. I don't see how one player who scores a goal every 5ish games should justify a spot because he makes one other (Rooney) around 10% better. Yes the 10% maybe enough to win games, however how many of the other best nations have donkeys as a strikers to support the other. All the attackers can score! This not to mention that Rooney for me is at his best just behind another striker.

[minute5072]

He's had a poor season in a team full of overpaid fannies. Could be on his way in the summer.

I quite like Sneijder actually. The Dutch have a decent squad for the World Cup, but perhaps may get let down by their defence.

[oafc0000]

I just wrote the mother of all complaint emails to Emirates regarding some stuff regarding my world cup package... Took me an hour to get just right

The response... An out of office reply saying he won't be back in the office until a day before I fly...

You have to laugh or you would cry... :angry:

Where do I go from here then

Edited June 2, 2010 by oafc0000

[ralph250]

No, I do rate skippy (at least, for his last two years at Utd) - it took a while for him to change from a show pony, with funnily enough, no end product just like what gets said about Walcott (but without anything like the same scrutiny that Walcott gets), into someone with an end product.

(And he was a few years older than Walcott's 20 when he found that end product ).

Edited June 3, 2010 by ralph250

[eFestivals]

You're saying that (while clearly talented) Rooney is vastly overrated.

no, I'm saying he's still basically unproven at the top levels. His record to-date against the better teams isn't what it might be. I'm not writing him off yet, as this last season he's stepped up a level, and that might be reflected in what he delivers this summer - or it might not.

I'm saying that apart from Messi, Kaka and Ronaldo, there's no-one in the world to touch him.

for the last season, yep. Before that he was nowhere close.

I think he's had the best season of any United player since they lined up with all four of Beckham, Giggs, Scholes and Keane, and that's praise indeed.

and I agree completely.

But it's just one season at that level, and a season where he's had no real chance to show if he's got the same form at international level.

So yes, the combination of the three stooges is a poor one. But I'm going a lot further. I'm saying that if you put Crouch in a 4-4-2 where the central midfielders are intelligent enough to ignore his height, he's one of the best strikers in the world. The problem being that footballers aren't known for their intelligence.

Crouch "one of the best strikers in the world"?

He's good, but nowhere near that good.

[Langdale Wolf]

It's quite interesting how many supposed 'experts' of the game - current pros, ex-pros, journalists - both English and non-English - are saying we should do quite well this summer.

[Kowalski]

It's quite interesting how many supposed 'experts' of the game - current pros, ex-pros, journalists - both English and non-English - are saying we should do quite well this summer.

[ampersand]

Happens every 2 years.

[Langdale Wolf]

Happens every 4 years.

Get beyond the semi's and I'm emigrating.

Edited June 3, 2010 by Langdale Wolf

[ampersand]

He did his back in carrying all the boxes. Karma is a bitch sometimes.