Frank Turner

[Lithium05]

But should people have the right to expect anything from the festival? I would say yes to a degree, there is a certain expectation to the sort of bands that play, i.e. if it turned into t4 in the park or anything without prior warning then that would not be good.

Though looking at this years line up Placebo, Deftones, Funeral For a Friend, Enter Shikari, Eagles of Death Metal, Brand New, Lost Prophets and Faith No More all coming under the more rockier side of things with more bands to be announced. I would say the festival has kept to what its about compared to previous years. It is certainly a 'softer' line up but I wouldn't say they have drastically changed the type of bands they have been booking for the last few years.

[Explosions_In_The_Sky]

Good question and honestly I dont know the answer. One characteristic of Pop has always is that it's always been a melting pop of certain genres watered down for a mass audience, to begin with it was blues, classical, rock n roll etc and I suppose this continues as Lilly Allen's music is influenced by dance and electronic music, but obviously its a watered down version of this. And I do think Lilly Allen still uses live instrumentation as well where as Prodigy don't.

Edited May 7, 2009 by Explosions_In_The_Sky

[hearing_aid]

Rock/Metal bands in the top two places on the main;

Last Year - 4/6

This Year - 0/6

I think that's the thing that annoys most people complaining

Also in fairness FNM haven't been announced yet, LP weren't in the first announcement, Deftones/FFAF are below f*cking Fall Out Boy and will only get 30-40 mins, Enter Shikari are shit and EODM are way down the line-up.

[thomasowen]

Dance music is pop music.

The final sound you create isn't what defines something as/or as not pop. After all, that said sound is only achieved through the manipulation of equipment. For instance you could take the same chord sequence from a punk rock song, and play it through a microkorg with the arpeggiator on - the same conventions are still being played, it just sounds different. Moreover, when Tom Morello plays a certain chord progression through the distortion on his JCM 800, it just "sounds" different from Lily Allen's guitarist who plays the same thing sans distortion. They are all still playing the same thing.

Now what I'm getting at with above examples is sub-genres of pop. Artists manipulate their sound in an almighty number of ways which helps them to fit into a sub-genre. This is where I agree certain acts do and do not belong at Reading/Leeds. However, they are still all pop acts. They all follow traditional song structures on the whole, the bulk of the artists catalogue will clock in under 5 minutes, and there will be a large number of songs touted for airplay, whether it be the punk rock band on some gutter Sky TV channel, or Kings of Leon on top of the charts. That was my only contention with this thread, the notion that music at Reading is 'rock' and that 'rock' is some superior different style of music to 'pop'. They are one in the same.

If anything dance is the ultimate pop music due to it's construction being something which has to follow a strict rhythm. That's why I don't like it when narrow minded rock fans bleep on about how dance (or electronic) music is 'crap' that is 'made by machines'. Many competent electronic musicians do have an extensive musical knowledge, and stuff like beat matching and time stretching tunes that you've programmed can be a hell of a lot harder than stamping on your DS-1 and knocking out some power chords.

The guy that said that there was only really 3 distinguishable areas of music was really on to something. Classical, although elements of it have infiltrated into pop, is very distinct. I'll hold my hand my hand up and say I can't detail why, but my flatmate at the RNCM (royal northern college of music) ensures me that this is so (the guy's a Cello playing classical music snob ). I know you have the popular classical charts, and stuff like the putty faced Russell Watson raking in the cash, however I think many would argue that that music is more pop's interpretation of classical, than classical; in it's truest form.

Then you have world music. Although it has like classical been hijacked by elements of pop, usually marketed in the Western world at pasty faced, attention seeking teen hippies, it is in it's truest form (usually referred to as 'traditional music') very distinct. The indigenous music of many African or Latin American countries follows little of the conventions of Westernised music, they certainly aren't created with marketable airplay in mind, and have been in evolution through 1000s of years of oral tradition. Of course, as time goes by things like Samba, Apala, Benga et al have merged into the popular music model anyway, so you could refer to 'world music' as the populised version of much 'traditional music'.

Now if you've read all that and thought 'why should I give a shit? Does this guy have nothing better to do?', well you first didn't have to read it, and secondly can you blame me from procrastinating from revising Freud and Russian Formalism in the uni library? Yeah thought not -

Edited May 7, 2009 by thomasowen

[kaosmark2]

I agree with you in essence, but when you're following on from a line-up including RATM, QOTSA, Metallica, Tenacious D, Slipknot, Avenged Sevenfold, Feeder, Bullet For My Valentine etc. with such a comparitively soft line up, having sold pre-sale tickets is a bit cheeky to say the least. The same goes for releasing the line-up at the same time as the tickets go on sale as this gives people the choice of buying a ticket straight away and then recoiling in terror when they see the shatfest they've just bought a ticket for, or take a minute to ponder and browse the line-up and risk missing out on a ticket to what they have every right to believe will be a festival with more on offer for those with heavier tastes than what we've been given this year.

The point being that off the back of last years line-up, people did have the right to expect a few more hard rock/metal bands.

[kaosmark2]

Good question and honestly I dont know the answer. One characteristic of Pop has always is that it's always been a melting pop of certain genres watered down for a mass audience, to begin with it was blues, classical, rock n roll etc and I suppose this continues as Lilly Allen's music is influenced by dance and electronic music, but obviously its a watered down version of this. And I do think Lilly Allen still uses live instrumentation as well where as Prodigy don't.

[kaosmark2]

Dance music is pop music.

The final sound you create isn't what defines something as/or as not pop. After all, that said sound is only achieved through the manipulation of equipment. For instance you could take the same chord sequence from a punk rock song, and play it through a microkorg with the arpeggiator on - the same conventions are still being played, it just sounds different. Moreover, when Tom Morello plays a certain chord progression through the distortion on his JCM 800, it just "sounds" different from Lily Allen's guitarist who plays the same thing sans distortion. They are all still playing the same thing.

Now what I'm getting at with above examples is sub-genres of pop. Artists manipulate their sound in an almighty number of ways which helps them to fit into a sub-genre. This is where I agree certain acts do and do not belong at Reading/Leeds. However, they are still all pop acts. They all follow traditional song structures on the whole, the bulk of the artists catalogue will clock in under 5 minutes, and there will be a large number of songs touted for airplay, whether it be the punk rock band on some gutter Sky TV channel, or Kings of Leon on top of the charts. That was my only contention with this thread, the notion that music at Reading is 'rock' and that 'rock' is some superior different style of music to 'pop'. They are one in the same.

If anything dance is the ultimate pop music due to it's construction being something which has to follow a strict rhythm. That's why I don't like it when narrow minded rock fans bleep on about how dance (or electronic) music is 'crap' that is 'made by machines'. Many competent electronic musicians do have an extensive musical knowledge, and stuff like beat matching and time stretching tunes that you've programmed can be a hell of a lot harder than stamping on your DS-1 and knocking out some power chords.

The guy that said that there was only really 3 distinguishable areas of music was really on to something. Classical, although elements of it have infiltrated into pop, is very distinct. I'll hold my hand my hand up and say I can't detail why, but my flatmate at the RNCM (royal northern college of music) ensures me that this is so (the guy's a Cello playing classical music snob ). I know you have the popular classical charts, and stuff like the putty faced Russell Watson raking in the cash, however I think many would argue that that music is more pop's interpretation of classical, than classical; in it's truest form.

Then you have world music. Although it has like classical been hijacked by elements of pop, usually marketed in the Western world at pasty faced, attention seeking teen hippies, it is in it's truest form (usually referred to as 'traditional music') very distinct. The indigenous music of many African or Latin American countries follows little of the conventions of Westernised music, they certainly aren't created with marketable airplay in mind, and have been in evolution through 1000s of years of oral tradition. Of course, as time goes by things like Samba, Apala, Benga et al have merged into the popular music model anyway, so you could refer to 'world music' as the populised version of much 'traditional music'.

Now if you've read all that and thought 'why should I give a shit? Does this guy have nothing better to do?', well you first didn't have to read it, and secondly can you blame me from procrastinating from revising Freud and Russian Formalism in the uni library? Yeah thought not -

[rivalschools.price]

I agree with you in essence, but when you're following on from a line-up including RATM, QOTSA, Metallica, Tenacious D, Slipknot, Avenged Sevenfold, Feeder, Bullet For My Valentine etc. with such a comparitively soft line up, having sold pre-sale tickets is a bit cheeky to say the least. The same goes for releasing the line-up at the same time as the tickets go on sale as this gives people the choice of buying a ticket straight away and then recoiling in terror when they see the shatfest they've just bought a ticket for, or take a minute to ponder and browse the line-up and risk missing out on a ticket to what they have every right to believe will be a festival with more on offer for those with heavier tastes than what we've been given this year.

The point being that off the back of last years line-up, people did have the right to expect a few more hard rock/metal bands.

[rivalschools.price]

But should people have the right to expect anything from the festival? I would say yes to a degree, there is a certain expectation to the sort of bands that play, i.e. if it turned into t4 in the park or anything without prior warning then that would not be good.

Though looking at this years line up Placebo, Deftones, Funeral For a Friend, Enter Shikari, Eagles of Death Metal, Brand New, Lost Prophets and Faith No More all coming under the more rockier side of things with more bands to be announced. I would say the festival has kept to what its about compared to previous years. It is certainly a 'softer' line up but I wouldn't say they have drastically changed the type of bands they have been booking for the last few years.

[thomasowen]

you cant really compare these bands to last year cos the are so far down the bill and lost prophets/FNM are on the other stages.the rok bands last year were headlining/sub headlining the main stage.p.s. anyone remember that we're supposed to be talking about frank turner ?

[Lithium05]

I know people keep pointing out last year being heavy in comparison to this year, but 2008 was the exception to the norm, not the other way around. In my opinion this year is far heavier than 07 and 06.

[kaosmark2]

3 out of the 6 top mainstage bands in 2007 were hard rock/metal - or at least are popular with that crowd. Also had Lostprophets, Jimmy Eat World, FFAF, The Used, Billy Talent.

Similarly 2006 had 3/6 and also had Feeder, Slayer, Flogging Molly, Wolfmother, Fightstar, Bullet for My Valentine, Less Than Jake, Killswitch Engage, Mastodon

I could go further back but can't be arsed. Bottom line is that anyone who says we had no reason to expect some more rock/metal on/higher up the mainstage is talking out of there arse.

[Lithium05]

Who was the 3rd? RHCP would be out of place at Download. KoL? Arcade Fire? RAZORLIGHT?

FFAF are in this year's lineup as well. And aren't heavy. And suck. JEW are pop-punk, not hard rock/metal.

[thomasowen]

3 out of the 6 top mainstage bands in 2007 were hard rock/metal - or at least are popular with that crowd. Also had Lostprophets, Jimmy Eat World, FFAF, The Used, Billy Talent.

Similarly 2006 had 3/6 and also had Feeder, Slayer, Flogging Molly, Wolfmother, Fightstar, Bullet for My Valentine, Less Than Jake, Killswitch Engage, Mastodon

I could go further back but can't be arsed. Bottom line is that anyone who says we had no reason to expect some more rock/metal on/higher up the mainstage is talking out of there arse.

[Lithium05]

Heavy acts are there this year though as is kept being said, just not in the top 6 places. 2006 wasn't that heavy anyway, Pearl Jam are not heavy rock or metal (though they are popular with many fans of those types of music) and placebo aren't a really heavy band (pus they are playing this year)

You had reason to expect heavier bands futher up the bill but if you had been on these boards before March then you should have been prepered for the lack of hard rock.

[thomasowen]

I would say we'd been prepared to expect less, not none. Prodigy and Bloc Party came completely out of left field as bands like Offspring, Lostprophets and a few others were being touted.

[kaosmark2]

I said are either Hard Rock/Metal "Or popular with that crowd" JEW and FFAF fit that catagory, and the fact they're playing this year is irellevent!

[kaosmark2]

True enough but many of the bands people were predicting to headline or play second (eg Faith No More, Placebo, Lost Prophets, Deftones) are playing further down the bill.

[thomasowen]

Not that any of those could headline.

[Andy_T]

Dunno if anyone else has posted this somewhere but Frank Turner said on his facebook to 'hold onto your hats for another festival announcement on Monday.' Wonder if it's on the next round of Reading/Leeds announcements? Anyone reckon he could headline the FR stage?

[thomasowen]

Here's hoping. I cant see him headlining fr stage, simply because I dont think they will anounce that till they have the rest of the main and nme in order.

[bartycrouch]

Frank will be mid NME i reckon hopefully on the saturday/sunday. Maybe sunday considering his fanbase seems to be fans of heavier music and would fit in nicley with gaslight anthem. His new record is going to get the hype wagon aswell so can see him being about 5/6th nme

[Englishdragon]

Dunno if anyone else has posted this somewhere but Frank Turner said on his facebook to 'hold onto your hats for another festival announcement on Monday.' Wonder if it's on the next round of Reading/Leeds announcements? Anyone reckon he could headline the FR stage?

[dakyras]

Frank Turner is indeed awesome. Struggling to believe he's better alone than with Million Dead though.

[kmb182uk]

Posted in the wrong thread.

Edited May 14, 2009 by kmb182uk