elvesandgremlins Posted May 21, 2017 Report Share Posted May 21, 2017 I bought tickets online for my mixed race son and I to attend an African festival. When I phoned the organiser to follow up, I was told that my son could only attend with a black person. I can give more details to clarify that I was being excluded because of my colour. I am not waiting for a refund, which they said will be sent by cheque, not by direct transfer, and I am finishing a complaint letter. I have been told by the EAS that this is direct discrimination, and I think it must be indirect discrimination too....?... because my son does not have a black person who can take him. Anyway, I intend to copy the EAS in on the letter. Are there any other relevant bodies who should know about this? Is there a festival organisation? Also, what is the official race relations or something similar address? My online searches have left me a bit confused. It could be that they are allowed to discriminate in this instance, but I would still like to have my voice heard. She did the classic thing on the phone of trying to shut me down when I confronted her about exclusion, trying to justify not having me as I would just cause trouble. Think I'm possibly more upset than angry. I thought I was doing a positive thing trying to introduce my son to his culture. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PretentiousThinkpiece Posted May 23, 2017 Report Share Posted May 23, 2017 (edited) This is disgusting, what festival is this? The fact that they're effectively performing a reverse brown paper bag test is also somewhat ironic tho Edited May 23, 2017 by PretentiousThinkpiece Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elvesandgremlins Posted May 28, 2017 Author Report Share Posted May 28, 2017 (edited) Thank you for your reply. Sorry, I have only just seen it. I'm a bit afraid to say the name of the festival at this stage, although I do understand that part of the point of this forum is to support each other and help others avoid the same pitfalls. I sent off the letter of complaint last week, but I'm concerned that they haven't refunded my money for the festival yet. They say cancellations can't be refunded, but transferred. They did say they would give me a refund, because I asked on the phone, when they said my son couldn't come with me, but would need a black person. If they don't make a refund I will obviously make more of a fuss, but if they do they are sort of admitting they are discriminating, because I made it clear I wouldn't transfer to someone else. Initially they had said they would transfer the money back to my account. Then they said they would send off a cheque as soon as I gave them my address. But that was well over a week ago. hmm, if they aren't sending me the cheque because I have complained about discrimination I think that could be victimisation. I'm about to search about refunds on here, and perhaps google Small Claims too. In the meantime if anyone else has any information or advice, that would be great. Edited May 28, 2017 by elvesandgremlins missed a bit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoghurt on a Stick Posted June 1, 2017 Report Share Posted June 1, 2017 On 5/28/2017 at 5:17 PM, elvesandgremlins said: Thank you for your reply. Sorry, I have only just seen it. I'm a bit afraid to say the name of the festival at this stage, although I do understand that part of the point of this forum is to support each other and help others avoid the same pitfalls. I sent off the letter of complaint last week, but I'm concerned that they haven't refunded my money for the festival yet. They say cancellations can't be refunded, but transferred. They did say they would give me a refund, because I asked on the phone, when they said my son couldn't come with me, but would need a black person. If they don't make a refund I will obviously make more of a fuss, but if they do they are sort of admitting they are discriminating, because I made it clear I wouldn't transfer to someone else. Initially they had said they would transfer the money back to my account. Then they said they would send off a cheque as soon as I gave them my address. But that was well over a week ago. hmm, if they aren't sending me the cheque because I have complained about discrimination I think that could be victimisation. I'm about to search about refunds on here, and perhaps google Small Claims too. In the meantime if anyone else has any information or advice, that would be great. You should possibly think about going to your local Citizens Advice Centre. There's some information from them here, on the subject that you have broached; https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/law-and-courts/discrimination/discrimination-because-of-race-religion-or-belief/discrimination-because-of-race/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elvesandgremlins Posted June 2, 2017 Author Report Share Posted June 2, 2017 THank you for this link. I had looked at their website, but there seems more information I hadn't seen. Useful to read up as much as possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elvesandgremlins Posted June 8, 2017 Author Report Share Posted June 8, 2017 I'm a bit more rattled about this now as they haven't given me a refund, my bank says there are no funds in their account and have referred me to the fraud police. Also, they have changed the payment details on their website. So I will now divulge who it is, although that isn't entirely clearcut. It's the Afrikan Story Telling Festival which takes place in July this year, and I paid the money to Griot Chinyere. But as far as I can make out, she operates through Nne Agwu, Chi-Shanti or Shanti-Chi. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoghurt on a Stick Posted June 9, 2017 Report Share Posted June 9, 2017 I'm surprised that your bank would give you that kind of information, or even have that information themselves unless you both bank with the same bank. Even then there are strict data protection protocols that they have to adhere to. I've looked at their website and it states that no refunds are given, but you are allowed to transfer a ticket. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elvesandgremlins Posted June 9, 2017 Author Report Share Posted June 9, 2017 Yes, it says no refunds are given but the bank and the equality people were concerned that they had made it possible for me to buy a ticket, then say I wasn't welcome, and then not provide a refund. I understand if I had decided I didn't want to go after all, they may well decide not to refund, but that's not how it went. And to say my son can only attend with a black person is denying him access because he doesn't have anyone else to go with. It was the fraud section of my bank that gave me the information about their account. They left a message at first, saying that unfortunately they had been unable to recover the money as there were no funds. Then I phoned to follow it up and they expressed their concerns. They saw it as a pretty straight forward case of me not getting what it said on the tin. Plus, I was told I would be given a refund, and I have this in writing. Thank you for the messages. When I first wrote on here I thought it was the discrimination that would be tricky. I really didn't expect them to withhold my money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoghurt on a Stick Posted June 10, 2017 Report Share Posted June 10, 2017 Might it be an idea to get in touch with the local council's consumer protection unit (or whatever they may call it)? Someone must have granted them a licence to hold the festival, and maybe that person or team could help you out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elvesandgremlins Posted June 10, 2017 Author Report Share Posted June 10, 2017 Yes, I vaguely remember reading something, maybe here, about local councils and consumer protection. Thank you for reminding me. I will follow that up next week. It didn't seem applicable when I first came on here, as I really didn't think the refund would be a problem, and I don't think the councils get involved with discrimination etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoghurt on a Stick Posted June 11, 2017 Report Share Posted June 11, 2017 I'm not sure if I have these details right, but even if I haven't , I'm sure someone from one of these contacts would be able to point you in the right direction of who to contact about this within the council; Economy, leisure and property South Oxfordshire District Council 135 Eastern Avenue Milton Park Milton OX14 4SB leisure@southoxon.gov.uk 01235 422240 Activity Coordinator participation@southandvale.gov.uk 01235 422240 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elvesandgremlins Posted June 11, 2017 Author Report Share Posted June 11, 2017 Thank you very much. This kind of thing takes up a lot of time tracking down the right people etc, so anything like that can reduce the leg work a bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ancient traditions Posted June 13, 2017 Report Share Posted June 13, 2017 (edited) Greetings people A few facts, When elvesandgremlin (the complainer) called to clarify wether her payment had been received, she was asked, Did you read the home page? She responded "yes". Are you aware of the target group for this festival? She responded, "Yes I saw that" So I can only assume that she chose to ignore the information. The website advises people every step of the way, to first read the terms of use before purchasing a ticket. Her letter of complaint indicates that she also read the terms of use which clearly outlines that work is focused on specific group(s). She read all of that and she chose to then go ahead a buy a ticket even though she did not agree with the terms of use or the aims and objectives of the organisation. Her letter of complaint has been acknowledged. The request for her patience has been made several times and, that the matter is being dealt with. However she has chosen to ignore those requests and go on the attack. It has been explained to her that the organisation's action is positive action to address the needs of a specific group of people whose healing is long over due. The aim and intention is to create a healing space. Hundreds of people benefit from the festival. There is one tiny corner of the world where this happens and because she has been told that her presence is not conducive to the healing of the other members, she is having a tantrum. It can be likened to women who have experienced rape. They need a male free zone to heal. It is not to say all men are rapist however for the purposes of healing a male free zone needs to be created. There are many women only spaces and this is considered positive action. Some women need those spaces to heal, to grow, to strengthen to achieve self actualisation. Husbands and male partners are not invited into the space. There are male only spaces and wives and female partners are not invited. There are child only spaces where parents are not invited. The focus is not on discrimination , the focus is on positive action, it is on the creative healing of a specific group of people using the oral tradition of storytelling. Some of the biggest advocates for this work are white people and white led organisations. They support the work, they promote the work and they ensure that the right people get the information. These people see the bigger picture. Being a white mother with an African child is a challenging responsibility, that is clear. When a specific group of people take their healing into their hands, it has a positive effect on the wider community and the world. The specific group are not looking for sympathy just the opportunity to self determination. If the complainer could just take herself out of this picture and put her child in a picture where he is surrounded by the other side of his identity and well being by finding an appropriate adult to accompany him to the festival she will receive many blessings from the ancestors and her child will thank her and a great time will be had. She can choose to see the good in what is being achieved with this festival or she can choose to focus on her own negativity. The choice will always be hers. In all of this I send divine love and energy into the world and may the ancestral spirits protect and guide us as we walk our path of purpose. Thank you! Edited June 13, 2017 by ancient traditions Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ancient traditions Posted June 13, 2017 Report Share Posted June 13, 2017 16 minutes ago, ancient traditions said: Greetings people A few facts, When elvesandgremlin (the complainer) called to clarify wether her payment had been received, she was asked, Did you read the home page? She responded "yes". Are you aware of the target group for this festival? She responded, "Yes I saw that" So I can only assume that she chose to ignore the information. The website advises people every step of the way, to first read the terms of use before purchasing a ticket. Her letter of complaint indicates that she also read the terms of use which clearly outlines that work is focused on specific group(s). She read all of that and she chose to then go ahead a buy a ticket even though she did not agree with the terms of use or the aims and objectives of the organisation. Her letter of complaint has been acknowledged. The request for her patience has been made several times and, that the matter is being dealt with. However she has chosen to ignore those requests and go on the attack. It has been explained to her that the organisation's action is positive action to address the needs of a specific group of people whose healing is long over due. The aim and intention is to create a healing space. Hundreds of people benefit from the festival. There is one tiny corner of the world where this happens and because she has been told that her presence is not conducive to the healing of the other members, she is having a tantrum. It can be likened to women who have experienced rape. They need a male free zone to heal. It is not to say all men are rapist however for the purposes of healing a male free zone needs to be created. There are many women only spaces and this is considered positive action. Some women need those spaces to heal, to grow, to strengthen to achieve self actualisation. Husbands and male partners are not invited into the space. There are male only spaces and wives and female partners are not invited. There are child only spaces where parents are not invited. The focus is not on discrimination , the focus is on positive action, it is on the creative healing of a specific group of people using the oral tradition of storytelling. Some of the biggest advocates for this work are white people and white led organisations. They support the work, they promote the work and they ensure that the right people get the information. These people see the bigger picture. Being a white mother with an African child is a challenging responsibility, that is clear. When a specific group of people take their healing into their hands, it has a positive effect on the wider community and the world. The specific group are not looking for sympathy just the opportunity to self determination. If the complainer could just take herself out of this picture and put her child in a picture where he is surrounded by the other side of his identity and well being by finding an appropriate adult to accompany him to the festival she will receive many blessings from the ancestors and her child will thank her and a great time will be had. She can choose to see the good in what is being achieved with this festival or she can choose to focus on her own negativity. The choice will always be hers. In all of this I send divine love and energy into the world and may the ancestral spirits protect and guide us as we walk our path of purpose. Thank you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tartan_Glasto Posted June 13, 2017 Report Share Posted June 13, 2017 This all seems a bit odd. "Inviting exclusively melanin rich African / African Caribbean people to join us on a 4-day camp to celebrate, promote and preserve the art of the oral tradition of storytelling." The website says nothing about creating a safe space and I'm pretty shocked you're using raped women as an example. Seems like a cowboy operation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PretentiousThinkpiece Posted June 13, 2017 Report Share Posted June 13, 2017 Quote Some of the biggest advocates for this work are white people and white led organisations. They support the work, they promote the work and they ensure that the right people get the information. am i going mad or is this basically a reverse "some of my best friends are black" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankly Mr Shankly Posted June 13, 2017 Report Share Posted June 13, 2017 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elvesandgremlins Posted June 14, 2017 Author Report Share Posted June 14, 2017 I don't think it is wise for the organisation, or representative of the organisation to get themselves into deeper water by now deciding to reply to my letter on a public forum. I would still welcome a formal response to my formal letter within 28 days but as the refund I was promised has not yet turned up, I believe I have the right to seek advice about this and to speak out about the treatment. I am not going to be bullied into not standing up for my rights. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoghurt on a Stick Posted June 15, 2017 Report Share Posted June 15, 2017 On 6/13/2017 at 11:23 AM, ancient traditions said: Greetings people A few facts, When elvesandgremlin (the complainer) called to clarify wether her payment had been received, she was asked, Did you read the home page? She responded "yes". Are you aware of the target group for this festival? She responded, "Yes I saw that" So I can only assume that she chose to ignore the information. The website advises people every step of the way, to first read the terms of use before purchasing a ticket. Her letter of complaint indicates that she also read the terms of use which clearly outlines that work is focused on specific group(s). She read all of that and she chose to then go ahead a buy a ticket even though she did not agree with the terms of use or the aims and objectives of the organisation. Her letter of complaint has been acknowledged. The request for her patience has been made several times and, that the matter is being dealt with. However she has chosen to ignore those requests and go on the attack. It has been explained to her that the organisation's action is positive action to address the needs of a specific group of people whose healing is long over due. The aim and intention is to create a healing space. Hundreds of people benefit from the festival. There is one tiny corner of the world where this happens and because she has been told that her presence is not conducive to the healing of the other members, she is having a tantrum. It can be likened to women who have experienced rape. They need a male free zone to heal. It is not to say all men are rapist however for the purposes of healing a male free zone needs to be created. There are many women only spaces and this is considered positive action. Some women need those spaces to heal, to grow, to strengthen to achieve self actualisation. Husbands and male partners are not invited into the space. There are male only spaces and wives and female partners are not invited. There are child only spaces where parents are not invited. The focus is not on discrimination , the focus is on positive action, it is on the creative healing of a specific group of people using the oral tradition of storytelling. Some of the biggest advocates for this work are white people and white led organisations. They support the work, they promote the work and they ensure that the right people get the information. These people see the bigger picture. Being a white mother with an African child is a challenging responsibility, that is clear. When a specific group of people take their healing into their hands, it has a positive effect on the wider community and the world. The specific group are not looking for sympathy just the opportunity to self determination. If the complainer could just take herself out of this picture and put her child in a picture where he is surrounded by the other side of his identity and well being by finding an appropriate adult to accompany him to the festival she will receive many blessings from the ancestors and her child will thank her and a great time will be had. She can choose to see the good in what is being achieved with this festival or she can choose to focus on her own negativity. The choice will always be hers. In all of this I send divine love and energy into the world and may the ancestral spirits protect and guide us as we walk our path of purpose. Thank you! (1) I find it very difficult to accept that Arts Council England have funded you, knowing that you are being discriminatory under the Equality Act 2010. I assume that they have funded you because you have used their logo. No matter, I will take all the issues raised on this thread up with them and report back, so that there's greater clarity for all. (2) Your likening of your discriminatory policies to the male rape of women is absolutely crass, and extraordinary limited in it's perspective eg. do you think male victims of male rape should only be in the company of women for a period of time? (3) Please could you inform everybody on here who the 'white' led organisations who support your work are? (4) Does the local council where you are intending to hold this event know of your discriminatory policies? Is the local Frieth Parish Council aware of them? Actually, I don't think I'll wait for an answer on this one. Probably best if I contact them direct I think. Inclusion is the answer, not exclusion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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