Stay at home parents

[Guest]

Yup... Its what we pay taxes for...

[feral chile]

I don't want to see a child go hungry. I am not proposing we let anyone go without.

I am proposing people act a little more responsible in the first place. Tony said he gave it no thought at all. I don't think that is responsible.

Edited March 20, 2013 by feral chile

[abdoujaparov]

Because you created a life form without any consideration on how it needs will be covered. The welfare state is meant to be a safety net not a way of life!

Yeah people are different. Some people are very irresponsible expecting to do what they like because its their right.

[abdoujaparov]

I propose no limits... As I said above...

All I ask is for a bit more consideration, responsibility etc...

If you are pulling in NMW having four kids is probably a bad idea....

[feral chile]

Because you created a life form without any consideration on how it needs will be covered. The welfare state is meant to be a safety net not a way of life!

Yeah people are different. Some people are very irresponsible expecting to do what they like because its their right.

[feral chile]

I propose no limits... As I said above...

All I ask is for a bit more consideration, responsibility etc...

If you are pulling in NMW having four kids is probably a bad idea.... For example...

[kaosmark2]

So basically, Barry's arguing that having children is a luxury that people should consider whether they can do without.

[kaosmark2]

If something isn't a luxury, it's not unreasonable to expect the state to pay if you can't afford to.

[feral chile]

That is a different argument...

You have what you have and you should make decisions based on that.

I agree we should be paying people the living wage. But doing that wouldn't suddenly enable people to justify to me having multiple children if they couldn't at least cover the basic costs. Clothing, food etc

[feral chile]

I don't think its unreasonable for the state to fund and support children. I think its unreasonable for people to make children with no consideration on how they might try to reduce the burden on the state.

The welfare state should be a safety net that helps you when you fall on hard times and not a life style.

[kaosmark2]

It's not a different argument, it's fundamental to why there's such low pay at the moment that the state pays tax credits to subsidise it. We live in a society where the state has decided that it needs to support business. One of the ways it does this is by providing a cheap labour force, paid for through the Tax Credits system. Without this state intervention, many businesses would go out of business, because people wouldn't be able to afford to work for them.

So...would the responsible thing to do be to check if we could afford a job without tax credits before we take it?

You can't really have it both ways, if we accept the tax credits system, then we accept other state help and just live our lives under whatever conditions we find ourselves.

So, if we're poor and have kids, so be it. If we work under a low wage, so be it.

[kaosmark2]

I haven't said what you should and should not accept...

The problem with your mentality and others here is what happens when the state goes to shit. Much like it currently is doing....

The money dries up, benefits are cut etc... And you have set up your whole existence and more importantly your children, on state support.

It comes across you see having children as form of civil disobedience... We can't afford it but fuck lets do it anyway...

Hey do what you need to do... The system will support you and make sure the kids are covered. I just think its a bit irresponsible and it puts a burden on the state.

[bunique]

Children themselves are not expensive.

TGT - no need to apologise, I got what you meant, it's just a trigger for me! Mother-guilt

[abdoujaparov]

I have a right to an opinion... Deal with it chump

[thesecretingredientiscrime]

Agreed! Im all for them being stopped!

[kaosmark2]

I am talking about anyone... I have never been on benefits / tax credits etc... (disclaimer I spent a brief period on job seekers after uni) but I didn't feel I was in the right position to have kids until about four years ago with solid income coming in, savings and a house sorted...

To me that was responsible.

[kaosmark2]

Well I benefited from not being home schooled

[feral chile]

I haven't said what you should and should not accept...

The problem with your mentality and others here is what happens when the state goes to shit. Much like it currently is doing....

The money dries up, benefits are cut etc... And you have set up your whole existence and more importantly your children, on state support.

It comes across you see having children as form of civil disobedience... We can't afford it but fuck lets do it anyway...

Hey do what you need to do... The system will support you and make sure the kids are covered. I just think its a bit irresponsible and it puts a burden on the state.

Edited March 20, 2013 by feral chile

[abdoujaparov]

Well I benefited from not being home schooled

[abdoujaparov]

I get 20-30% of child benefit.... Its a universal benefit... (or at least it was)

My the security of my children does not depend upon me receiving child benefit.

[abdoujaparov]

We all get certain universal benefits... NHS for example....

I think you know what I mean but if not I suppose we are all on benefits if you want to take that view. So to clarify, income related benefits.... The only one is child benefit which of course is no longer a universal offering.

There is still a big chance we won't get CB going forwards. Depends on earnings of course. Not arse about it going.

[kaosmark2]

I get 20-30% of child benefit.... Its a universal benefit... (or at least it was)

My the security of my children does not depend upon me receiving child benefit.

[feral chile]

We all get certain universal benefits... NHS for example....

I think you know what I mean but if not I suppose we are all on benefits if you want to take that view. So to clarify, income related benefits.... The only one is child benefit which of course is no longer a universal offering.

There is still a big chance we won't get CB going forwards. Depends on earnings of course. Not arse about it going.

[kaosmark2]

It gets spent on the kiddy... It pays for swimming lessons.

[abdoujaparov]

Yeah we have all been to the doctors... So well done you are anally correct