the merged banned Chinese Lanterns thread

[laid back in the sun]

Unless they come down in an open field.

[5co77ie]

the risk to livestock from these things is miniscule compared to the amount damage caused by people chucking empty tins and bottles out of car windows into fields, i've often seen mowing machines working in fields beside public roads and the noise of bottles being smashed up by them is unmistakable and finding shards of tin cans in silage or bales of hay is a common occurence plus the way the lanterns descend from the sky when the fuel block is burnt out means they are much more likely to end up catching on trees and hedges where they dont pose a risk to livestock

Edited January 21, 2010 by 5co77ie

[Katster]

I think they are pretty and I'd hate to see them gone completely. Hoever, far too many of them are set off at Glastonbury alone now, I can't speak for other festivals. They are very big (even when folded down) so I don't see how so many of them get through the gates if they are a banned item?

[Kyelo]

They're easier for cows to eat than tin cans or bottles.

Regardless, they're still a big risk to tents though - just ask a certain festival held at the end of the summer (I found out yesterday)

Their stewards had a major fire control exercise on their hands as tens of lanterns were lit at the same time (by those not used to setting them off) as part of a display, only to not go up but accross and into the camping area at head height.

Fortunately an alert steward saw the impending disaster and spent the next 10 minutes, downing the burning lanterns and stamping on them. However I hear some did get through and damage tents.

[cejx]

I think they are pretty and I'd hate to see them gone completely. Hoever, far too many of them are set off at Glastonbury alone now, I can't speak for other festivals. They are very big (even when folded down) so I don't see how so many of them get through the gates if they are a banned item?

[5co77ie]

Where was that?

Thing is with them at Glastonbury every one I have seen is released on hill either at the Stone Circle or back of the Pyramid field so by the time they are over tents they are tens of feet up at least.

Edited January 21, 2010 by 5co77ie

[laid back in the sun]

They're easier for cows to eat than tin cans or bottles.

Regardless, they're still a big risk to tents though - just ask a certain festival held at the end of the summer (I found out yesterday)

Their stewards had a major fire control exercise on their hands as tens of lanterns were lit at the same time (by those not used to setting them off) as part of a display, only to not go up but accross and into the camping area at head height.

Fortunately an alert steward saw the impending disaster and spent the next 10 minutes, downing the burning lanterns and stamping on them. However I hear some did get through and damage tents.

[5co77ie]

cows dont tend to eat foot long strands of wire though, its when they become shredded by mowing machinery that they become a problem, farmers can get small powerful magnets which are mixed in with the cows feed and these attach to the metal and the cow shits them out... this obviously doesnt work with glass and as most cans are made of aluminium it doesnt work for them either, theres still some risk from the wire in lanterns but its nothing compared to the damage cans and bottles cause.

compared to some festivals (e.g. the big chill where lanterns are actually encouraged through organised releases and having stalls selling them onsite) you dont really get that many at glasto!

[laid back in the sun]

well theres every chance that farmer is full of shit... even if he's not im sure it didnt stop him selling the carcass on to those restaurants he supplies either and if people are so concerned about the welfare of cows they should stop bloody eating them! the myth that farmers treat their livestock like pets is simply that.. a myth! i see regularly how they are treated and its often nothing short of animal cruelty, profits are what farmers are primarily concerned with not how happy their animals are!

[ukslim]

well theres every chance that farmer is full of shit... even if he's not im sure it didnt stop him selling the carcass on to those restaurants he supplies either and if people are so concerned about the welfare of cows they should stop bloody eating them! the myth that farmers treat their livestock like pets is simply that.. a myth! i see regularly how they are treated and its often nothing short of animal cruelty, profits are what farmers are primarily concerned with not how happy their animals are!

[cejx]

well theres every chance that farmer is full of shit... even if he's not im sure it didnt stop him selling the carcass on to those restaurants he supplies either and if people are so concerned about the welfare of cows they should stop bloody eating them! the myth that farmers treat their livestock like pets is simply that.. a myth! i see regularly how they are treated and its often nothing short of animal cruelty, profits are what farmers are primarily concerned with not how happy their animals are!

[laid back in the sun]

You clearly don't know the first thing about farming. I barely do either, but I do know that a cow has to be slaughtered in a proper licenced abattoir in order to be sold as meat.

Yes, there's a profit motive in this: that cow was of great financial value to the farmer. Depending on what kind it was, he might have sold it for slaughter as premium beef; milked it for years to come; or sold it as breeding stock. Choked to death in the field, he'll be lucky to sell it as pet food.

[.jay.]

I've also seen another blow inside someone's tent full of sleeping kids

[ukslim]

i think you'll find i probably know more about farming than most people on these boards as i own a farm and theres a big difference in what rules and regulations are meant to be followed and what actually happens in real life!

[cejx]

well theres every chance that farmer is full of shit... even if he's not im sure it didnt stop him selling the carcass on to those restaurants he supplies either and if people are so concerned about the welfare of cows they should stop bloody eating them! the myth that farmers treat their livestock like pets is simply that.. a myth! i see regularly how they are treated and its often nothing short of animal cruelty, profits are what farmers are primarily concerned with not how happy their animals are!

[laid back in the sun]

So you're telling me that having a cow die on you is NOT a big financial loss and a pain in the arse to a farmer? I'm going to take a lot of convincing on that.

[cejx]

if all the rules are followed fallen animals (any animal which has died on the farm whether this is caused by old age, disease or accidents) are meant to be collected by a licensed company and taken away and the carcass is usually processed for pet foods (not incinerated as someone else stated earlier) this actually costs the farmer money so in reality what often happens (if the animal was healthy prior to its death) is that the farmer himself will gut and skin the animal and sell it on for a slightly reduced price to restaurants or butchers that he does business with and therefore avoids losing money on his investment, it might also surprise you that there is quite a healthy market for stolen livestock which end up the same way, not all farmers are completely law abiding especially if its going to leave them out of pocket.

[strudders]

if all the rules are followed fallen animals (any animal which has died on the farm whether this is caused by old age, disease or accidents) are meant to be collected by a licensed company and taken away and the carcass is usually processed for pet foods (not incinerated as someone else stated earlier) this actually costs the farmer money so in reality what often happens (if the animal was healthy prior to its death) is that the farmer himself will gut and skin the animal and sell it on for a slightly reduced price to restaurants or butchers that he does business with and therefore avoids losing money on his investment, it might also surprise you that there is quite a healthy market for stolen livestock which end up the same way, not all farmers are completely law abiding especially if its going to leave them out of pocket.

[laid back in the sun]

OK, so as a farmer, you are more interested in profit than happy animals?

I disagree with that. After foot and mouth, CJD etc etc, most farmers adhere to the strictest of codes and rules so as not to suffer such catastrophic losses again - which nearly brought down the industry. If you are a farmer that doesn't care for the rules and regulations - now that really is shite, surely DEFRA would be breathing down your neck - unless you have a different set of rule in Northern Ireland?

[laid back in the sun]

I'm sorry, but thats nonsense, as without the DEFRA stamp, the meat cannot be sold on.

Incidentally, what kind of farmer are you?

[cejx]

you have missed out one word there and that is 'legally the meat cannot be sold on'. it all comes down to profits in the end

[strudders]

Also I will add that up and until the advent of round bail silage all silage was via a harvester (still quite a bit and some real Self propelled porn out there )

However we used to do Round bail silage and forage precision chop (New Holland with a big V8 slapped on it)

The forage harvester had a metal detector in the feed from the pick up that would stop the thing if it detected a haybob tine etc... (not millions of tent pegs as per worthy farm)

I have seen this fail and had to fix the harvester because the bladed were stuck in the shoot.

Round bail's and high density bailers did not and the likely hood of picking up crap was greater. (some do now though)

My point is, Cow will eat anything and they will eat wire if they pick it up and its not until they go pop, you know you have a problem.

whether from forage on the ground or winter silage from squares or rounds...

I will also tell you ewe's once facing the wrong way down a ditch will not walk backwards or turn around to get out from a watering hole.... buts that's another story......

[laid back in the sun]

I guess we grew up in very different farming communities and TBH I'm pretty glad I can source the provenance of my meat. The farmers I've worked with have followed the rule book like a bible (Esp for the past 10-15 yrs) for the simple reason, one diseased cow - and the whole lot is slaughtered - livelihood down the pan.

[Rufus Gwertigan]

You are all wrong. DEFRA have sod all to do with meat hygiene. That is the Meat Hygiene Service (MHS) which is part of the FSA.

Bloody losers

[laid back in the sun]

anyway who's up for a mass release on the wednesday night?

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/20-x-SKY-LANTERNS-KH...=item439cd29f93