zahidf

[eFestivals]

I think we'll soon see the day when some semi-educated "Chavs" wise up and realise there is money to be made from the use of language. After all, a quick look on this site shows loads of comments (and even threads) about "Chav" behaviour. One thread indead contains a comment suggesting that they should be confined to their own festival and destoryed with a rocket at the end of it! But this is ok, because it's neither a bigoted or racist word (yet).

you see, you just go and let yourself down yet again. Chav is yet another derogative term derived from use by a particular race.

Why don't I act against 'chav' when I act against others? Precisely because so few realise that it's a racial slur and so offensive as a racial slur, and because I'm (I hope) smart enough to know when I'd be getting into a battle that I'd be unlikely to win - given how some people won't accept how "pikey" and "gay" are wrong to use, I'd have a much harder job with chav. I have better things to be doing with my life than getting into constant battles.

(For those who don't know, the origin of 'chav' is from within Romani communities, as their word for a boy or child. So perhaps you'd do well to remember that, and choose not to use it ).

At the end of the day, I recognise that language is fluid and that context is important - I'm not taking a moral high ground just for the sake of taking a moral high ground. Because most people aren't aware of the origin of 'chav', there's far less on-going effect caused by its use than with the likes of other words, where their other meanings are around as common as their 'bad' usage meanings, and so subconsciously implanting those bad ideas into people's heads.

[zahidf]

Can we go back to slagging of the rioters? this all seems a little silly now. Its like a frankenstein monster i have unwittingly unleashed on the world.

For the record, i always saw 'pikey' as being the same as 'Chavvy', i really didn;t know it still had a bad connotation for roma's. I thought that was in the past!

[eFestivals]

Forgot to add ... by this logic, if I was an Irish Traveller, I could only be insulted by being called a Pikey, but if I was Romani, it would be racist. And yet the use of the word to both groups today would almost certainly have been said with the same intent.

whatever the intent, and whoever it's used against, it is slurring a whole ethnicity.

It is saying that if you're Romany then you are somehow a lesser person; the same applies with use of 'nigger', and it works in a very similar way (tho against those of specific sexuality rather than ethnicity) with the use of 'gay' to mean bad.

[eFestivals]

Can we go back to slagging of the rioters? this all seems a little silly now. Its like a frankenstein monster i have unwittingly unleashed on the world.

I'm more than happy for things to return to the specific points you were wanting to raise, rather than talking about the language you used to raiser those points.

For the record, i always saw 'pikey' as being the same as 'Chavvy', i really didn;t know it still had a bad connotation for roma's. I thought that was in the past!

Hmmmm .... surely, if you "thought it was in the past", you knew of a relationship with the word to a whole group of people (even if those people were travellers and not specifically Romany?)? And the fact that you knew surely means that it couldn't be "in the past"? Surely, you'd have been able to stop and realise this, and recognise that you were slurring a grouping by linking them with something they're not responsible for?

Anyway, as I say above, I'm more than happy for this to move on.

[mandypants]

Sounds like Leeds was better behaved than Reading this year!

[llcoolphil]

Thanks efestivals

[SecretShame]

you see, you just go and let yourself down yet again. Chav is yet another derogative term derived from use by a particular race.

...

Edited September 1, 2009 by SecretShame

[strudders]

I was in purple and we had a massive fire near us............

now that my life has been shortened a few hours trying to read this thread...

Anyway back to slagging the "rioters"

Ever been in a riot? Not nice

These were idiot (checks dictionary) Stupid (same again) exuberant (no problem there) youngsters letting off lots of steam. I had a fantastic night with my cans of beer and bottle of rum. The plod where very nice about it all except when you turned up with a gazebo to lob on.

It was better than last year and the kids where much nicer as well to be frank. I am knocking on a bit and I loved every min of Reading this year. I loved the fact at 4 in the morning kids would come and warm themselves by our fire and talk bollocks before moving on and then saying hello in the morning. The fact we gave away some fire wood to a group and they came back with a load of beers for us. The fact that only 1 can landed in our camp all weekend (last year was like raining tins)

So no they were not riots. I also believe the arrest were down this year on last... Says it all really.

Oh by the way even after being told by the plod that we could not have a fire when it sprang back into life a guy from specilized came over and said it was fine just keep it low.....

Great....

[Paul ™]

So no they were not riots. I also believe the arrest were down this year on last... Says it all really.

Oh by the way even after being told by the plod that we could not have a fire when it sprang back into life a guy from specilized came over and said it was fine just keep it low.....

Great....

[micawber]

Arrests were down? Where you getting that info from?

Even if they were, the amount of processed evictions was far higher than previous years, which means more people were causing trouble and not being arrested but just evicted.

[zahidf]

I was in purple and we had a massive fire near us............

now that my life has been shortened a few hours trying to read this thread...

Anyway back to slagging the "rioters"

Ever been in a riot? Not nice

These were idiot (checks dictionary) Stupid (same again) exuberant (no problem there) youngsters letting off lots of steam. I had a fantastic night with my cans of beer and bottle of rum. The plod where very nice about it all except when you turned up with a gazebo to lob on.

It was better than last year and the kids where much nicer as well to be frank. I am knocking on a bit and I loved every min of Reading this year. I loved the fact at 4 in the morning kids would come and warm themselves by our fire and talk bollocks before moving on and then saying hello in the morning. The fact we gave away some fire wood to a group and they came back with a load of beers for us. The fact that only 1 can landed in our camp all weekend (last year was like raining tins)

So no they were not riots. I also believe the arrest were down this year on last... Says it all really.

Oh by the way even after being told by the plod that we could not have a fire when it sprang back into life a guy from specilized came over and said it was fine just keep it low.....

Great....

[crosswillcastyourshadow]

"Anyone that wants to argue that the use of racial slurs in any context is acceptable will be banned."

Realy hate to bring up the argument again, but i don't understand how you've missed the point.... being in the moral f**king high ground & apparantly much more superior in knowledge to everyone else.

Nobody said or implied that it was acceptable to use racial slurs in any context. Far from it, most people didn't know the origins of the word that sparked such an unnecesary fuss in the first place.

You've said yourself that you could have just contacted the OP & explained why it caused offence & seen an end to an unnecesary debate. Instead you've egged on a debate on a very touchy subject and deliberately talked down to people in an elitest and snobby way.

If your job as forum moderator is to help keep possitive, open minded & diverse debate running within a friendly and far reaching community then you've done far from it.

I never used the word that caused offence, But I'd like to appologise to who was offended in the first place for how much of a ridiculous and unnecesary fuss was raised.

Neil or sco77ie.... whoever efestivals is, I could have been educated on the origins of british slang without learning how much of a condesending, self richeous c**t you can be.

[eFestivals]

"Anyone that wants to argue that the use of racial slurs in any context is acceptable will be banned."

Realy hate to bring up the argument again, but i don't understand how you've missed the point.... being in the moral f**king high ground & apparantly much more superior in knowledge to everyone else.

Nobody said or implied that it was acceptable to use racial slurs in any context. Far from it, most people didn't know the origins of the word that sparked such an unnecesary fuss in the first place.

You've said yourself that you could have just contacted the OP & explained why it caused offence & seen an end to an unnecesary debate. Instead you've egged on a debate on a very touchy subject and deliberately talked down to people in an elitest and snobby way.

If your job as forum moderator is to help keep possitive, open minded & diverse debate running within a friendly and far reaching community then you've done far from it.

I never used the word that caused offence, But I'd like to appologise to who was offended in the first place for how much of a ridiculous and unnecesary fuss was raised.

Neil or sco77ie.... whoever efestivals is, I could have been educated on the origins of british slang without learning how much of a condesending, self richeous c**t you can be.

The very fact that - as you admit - people didn't know the origins of the words they're using demonstrates that it was necessary to have this debate. People are more knowledgeable from it, and hopefully won't be using certain racial slurs in future because of it.

It wasn't possible to "keep" a positive open-minded and diverse debate running; there was no positive debate happening from the off, because the debate was sullied by racial slurs.

If you think tackling racism is a ridiculous and unneccessary fuss then you're a prick of the highest order; your warped idea of apologising for something nothing to do with you, and by it excusing racism (meant or not) makes you about as low as it gets. You seem to object to being wised up, and there's f**k all I can do about that. Enjoy your life of stupidity.

[Crouchie]

yawn

[Im_in_a_tent]

Arrests were down? Where you getting that info from?

Even if they were, the amount of processed evictions was far higher than previous years, which means more people were causing trouble and not being arrested but just evicted.

[reni]

What about the tarquinism going on here as well.

It's a disgrace to the tarquins.

[Dirty Boots]

Chavs a not a race, a social class at most.

[googlebrain]

Chavs a not a race, a social class at most.

[eFestivals]

Chavs a not a race, a social class at most.

it's a racial slur, no different to 'nigger' being a racial slur.

The fact that most people who use 'chav' don't know that it's a racial slur doesn't remove that racial slur from it. The fact that it's most usually used in what people are believing to be* a class use doesn't remove the racial slur from it.

(* I say "class use", but in fact it's not standardly applied to a particular class, so it's not even that. It's most standardly applied just to to mean "I'm a better person than the person I'm calling a chav").

[eFestivals]

You lot need to get out more and get over yourselfs.

CHAVS

And so do you. In fact I'll help you. Bye.

[ilovemaiden]

Can't it just be left at a warning, and another strike and you're out, its boring now.. This is a Reading discussion..

[Im_in_a_tent]

Can't it just be left at a warning, and another strike and you're out, its boring now.. This is a Reading discussion..

[Dirty Boots]

it's a racial slur, no different to 'nigger' being a racial slur.

The fact that most people who use 'chav' don't know that it's a racial slur doesn't remove that racial slur from it. The fact that it's most usually used in what people are believing to be* a class use doesn't remove the racial slur from it.

(* I say "class use", but in fact it's not standardly applied to a particular class, so it's not even that. It's most standardly applied just to to mean "I'm a better person than the person I'm calling a chav").

[Explosions_In_The_Sky]

it's a racial slur, no different to 'nigger' being a racial slur.

The fact that most people who use 'chav' don't know that it's a racial slur doesn't remove that racial slur from it. The fact that it's most usually used in what people are believing to be* a class use doesn't remove the racial slur from it.

(* I say "class use", but in fact it's not standardly applied to a particular class, so it's not even that. It's most standardly applied just to to mean "I'm a better person than the person I'm calling a chav").

Edited September 3, 2009 by Explosions_In_The_Sky

[Dirty Boots]

Good post ... pompous, but good points.