I broke into Glasto....

[Langdale Wolf]

Well I felt like a bit of a dick for missing this year due to becoming a new dad.

So I took the baby to the gates and asked if I could swap him for entry into the site. And - like the photo on a Glasto ticket - he looks like me.

They wouldn't let me in.

I was kicking myself but rest assured, I've learned from my mistake. I won't be leaving my John Thomas hanging around where my wife can get at it - it'll be safely tucked away so I'm assured of getting into Glastonbury next year.

[eFestivals]

But I'm an old git too... but have enough nouse to realise that on occasion 'these things happen', things go missing, and there should be simple procedures in place to assist when shit does happen. Yeah, we've to be responsible for our stuff, but that 1% of the time... human error dictates... whatevee... folk will lose their tickets!

I realise that these things happen too.

Shit happens. The consequences of that shit happening generally falls onto the person that the shit happens to. Do you really think it should really be different to that?

There is nothing in place at the festival whereby they take responsibility for others mistakes. Similarly, there's nothing in place in Tescos if you go there having forgotten your wallet or purse. Would you expect them to give you food for free anyway?

A ticket is required. That's the end of it, it really is!

[radish]

Hmm. I have much sympathy for the OP, not a nice situation to find yourself in. I myself have never ever lost anything (really truly, it's a condition of sorts, I always know where everything is) so perhaps can see this from an unbiased viewpoint. Even if I can't understand how you could lose something as important as a Glasto ticket.

A system does exist to get people in to the festival without tickets, this is known. As in the example of the person whose ticket had been Royally Mailed, I know of a few other people who have suffered similar problems over the years. The attitude of the ticket company rep is certainly at fault, with these jokers it's not unusual to have to shout and rant and argue to get to talk to someone who can verify what you're saying is true (i.e. you were told by someone from the ticket company to do what you're doing) and the soul-less little hitler ("THE POWER, THE POWWWWWEEEEEEERRRRRRRR! I AM IN CHARGE! YOU WILL DO WHAT I SAY AND LOVE IT! ) then has to back down and do their job properly.

However, in the case of 'just' losing your ticket and being told by the ticket agent not to go because you won't get in (sorry, not clear if that's what happened here or not and can't be arsed to re-read everything), the above doesn't apply unfortunately. Unless you can get agreement in advance that you will be let in with the id proof you took, sorry but not going to happen.

Having said that I'm glad you got in - bit of karma/fate/whatever there, it was meant to happen - and I agree that this does show that there are still flaws in the entry system that need addressing. However, I do think that in your situation, had I been told in advance I wouldn't get in, I'd have (in a very pissed off way) said sod it, invested another wodge in the local offy, drowned my sorrows over the weekend and written the whole thing off as a major f**k-up. And then maybe drowned my flatmate. And then written a song about it. The ballad of the year I lost my Glasto ticket.

This does raise another question in my mind though, which is should there be an onus on the festival to ensure it is the ticket holder/purchaser who gains entry and no-one else? This system has been put in place which is great in the main, but if it's a view that it is possible to sell your ticket and somebody else use it, then isn't this a flaw? I'm not saying this means just because you stumped up for a ticket you get guaranteed entry, but if somebody does get in with a 2nd hand/stolen/found ticket, should it not be at least partially the responsibility of the festival that they've let somebody in, or at least it should be viewed as their error? But even then, what can be done?

It's tricky, to take this incident as a basis of an example if nothing else it would have taken some time to sort out if it's even possible. Mr A turns up and says ticket lost, has proof of purchase etc., gets let in as genuine punter with warning that if anybody uses allegedly lost ticket they're out. Problem one - if allegedly lost ticket is used by Mr B, Mr A is already on site and can't be found. Problem two - if Mr B has already used lost ticket, Mr B is already on site and can't be found. Problem three - if Mr A is let in and an alert put out for a possible Mr B, assuming this alert can be done in time it means an awful lot of staff on all the gates have to be very vigilant with an awful lot of people entering, possible but slow and difficult. Problem four - if Mr A is let in and Mr B is caught with the ticket, and then Mr A is found, how do you prove Mr A doesn't know Mr B and it's all been planned, who gets kicked out, A, B or both? Problem 5 - if Mr C turns up, how will we stop him singing Ebeneezer Goode?

Considering all the possibilities, it's more probable that in this scenario, assuming somebody else has the ticket, there will be two entrants for the one ticket purchase, which the festival clearly cannot allow as this presumably would breach the terms of licence by exceeding the number of people predicted to be on site.

The only way for purchase of the ticket to be as important or valid as holding the actual ticket would be to have booked places inside the festival. In the same way your plane ticket (in whatever format) books you a seat on the plane and hence loss of paper isn't the end of the world as your place is still reserved, your festival ticket would have to book you a space at the festival. If somebody else tries to use your booked space then they'll get caught because they can't prove they're you and therefore authorised to use that space and you can. Be that a tent pitch or a seat in an arena, it's clearly not something that could happen at Glastonbury due to the freedom of movement inside the fence (although perhaps it could and maybe even should be tried somewhere like V, would shut up the idiots complaining about people pushing in on 'their' space in the crowd ). I think, for what it's worth which isn't much, that in the spirit of the festival, had I been the ticket rep and had the authority I would have said firmly but as fairly as possible, sorry but you can't come in. However, in the interest of trying to be as fair as possible in the circumstances, how about a guaranteed ticket for the next festival? Still an arse for this year, but at least you'll have a guaranteed ticket for next year - as long as you don't lose it. Invest in a safe or take it to a bank/safety deposit place. Good luck for next year.

I bet I go and lose my ticket now.....

[halvin]

I'm not either as I said but I can find out. And what conditions they stipulate and what is legal may be two different things but as I've said I'm not sure.

[eFestivals]

I see Agent Smith of The Matrix is alive and well!!

Thing that winds me up is if Glasto did introduce some kind of lost ticket process/scheme along the lines of whats been suggested you'd be the first to bang on about how great it is and how it affirms that Glasto is the best festival out there etc etc blah blah.

As has been mentioned, out of all the people who go to Glasto you have to expect some people to lose or misplace tickets. I agree that entry shouldn't just be based on proof of purchase alone but Im sure there is a way to compromise.

One more point - if its such an unlikely scenario, why do they even have these ticket misery portakabin places for people to go to with such problems?

If Glasto did implement a system whereby those without their tickets could get in without compromising the numbers, I'd be impressed, I really would.

I know they've looked into such systems, and I know that they consider them unworkable for all sorts of extremely good reasons.

The simple fact is that even if they did have a bar-code scanning system of some sort it still wouldn't be fool-proof for someone who'd lost their ticket, as the ticket might have been found by someone else who'd used it to enter before the person who'd lost their ticket arrived at the 'lost tickets' point.

[whatmidlifecrisis?]

The cash example is not appropriate because by its very nature cash is fully assignable. A personalised ticket bearing a photograph and which on its face is expressed by the issuer to be non-transferable is a very different matter.

A ticket replacement system is just a question of good customer service, not obligation. It is a perfectly reasonable expectation for there to be a system in place to deal with the "tiny number of people" (as you put it) who face this problem. At the very least it is a basic requirement that people in this position should not be sneered or laughed at by administration staff or otherwise mistreated or taken advantage of by security.

The cost need not even be picked up by the rest of us - its perfectly usual for an administration fee to be charged for the issue of replacement tickets.

Finally, I am really surprised that you think a well written and genuine post by a first-timer should deserve having their ability to wipe their own arse called into question or to be described as "about as pathetic as things can get". Its a good contribution on a genuine and important issue which could affect any of us if we are unlucky enough. He's right to raise it and deserves better treatment than that.

[eFestivals]

Anyway, just a scenario to see what efestivals would have done in the circumstances but seems to be avoiding answering. Not surprising really as we all know what the answer would be, which pisses all over his bonfire.

I'd answered your question even before you'd asked it.

And I've answered it a second time too.

I'm not going to answer it a third time; take some responsibly to read for yourself.

[Bluearsedfly]

I've already posted that if the same had happened to me I'd have probably done similar to the OP and tried somehow to get in. And yes, I would have even tried phoning Michael and Emily or whoever else, trying to use my position to try and get in.

What I wouldn't have done is felt there was any failure on the part of the festival.

If you care to notice, I've not given any criticism of the OP for him trying what he tried - I've only criticised his view that the festival is somehow at fault. The festival does all it has to to protect it's own position; the same applies to every ticket holder in regard to their ticket.

Edited July 9, 2009 by Bluearsedfly

[hope]

i think 'consistency' here is the issue...

i don't understand why he had such a hard time to get in, as we has a similar problem, but the See Tickets people were fine with us...

5 tickets bought, but only 4 received, rang See Tickets & they said they couldn't print another, so we'd just have to go to the ticket office onsite & show ID...

did as they said, explained what had happened, they checked their laptop in the office and 5 mins later, gave us an envelope which contained FIVE new tickets (without photos), not sure why, but we just took them anyway...

our friend (with no photo ID ticket) got in with a temporary ticket (no questions asked), so i wonder if we could've sold the 4 spare temporary tickets ? not that we did or would have, but wondered if it was possible ?

we were all ready for an argument (as See Tickets had messed us around after ringing them every day for 2 weeks) so not sure what we'd have done if they'd refused to issue a temporary ticket...but we wouldn't have gone in without our friend that's for sure (especially as she was only 15 !) and we wouldn't have all gone home either...

they obviously believed us (as we COULD have sold her ticket) so it must just depend on the See Ticket person in the office at the time...which doesn't seem fair...

i initially thought "why can't they scan all the tickets like they do at the Arenas ?" but as several people have explained, that depends on the system working 100%, which they could never guarantee over such a wide area and for such a long period of time (the Arenas are only open for 6 hours at a time)...

it must just work on trust, cos if you ring up and report the ticket missing & they ADVISE you to go to site & explain your predicament at the office, then it will depend on the person in the site office, whether they let you in or not...

effectively, if they made this system public - then loads of people would ring in and report their ticket missing (when it wasn't) and consequently, See Tickets would be issuing hundreds or even thousands of duplicate tickets, thus causing a massive overcrowding H&S problem...

not sure what the solution is...but the current system seems to work ok...does anyone know of anyone who didn't actually get in ???

[eFestivals]

You say the system is back-up against human error, but the losing of tickets is human error, and as already said, they would not need to implement a new system; all the information they need is there, especially as the poster said he brought as much proof of ID with him as possible - how could anyone connected with the festival claim to be worried about two people going in on one ticket when so much proof is presented?

Glastonbur have systems for the human errors within their control. why do you think they should have systems for the hum,an errors outside of their control? That would be like you having responsibility for the UK's nuclear missiles despite them being nothing to do with you.

all the information is NOT already there.

There is no information about what's happened to the ticket aside from it having been sent to the buyer and and received by the buyer. There is no info on whether the ticket have been used by someone to enter the festival.

Obviously everyone tries to keep their ticket to the best weekend of the year safe, but these things happen as people do have lives outside of Glastonbury... the consequences are obviously not too great when the two coincide.[/qiuote]

perhaps each bank note should come with a piece of elastic so you can't possibly lose it? That would have far more widespread benefit than a Glasto lost ticket system.

[eFestivals]

The cash example is not appropriate because by its very nature cash is fully assignable. A personalised ticket bearing a photograph and which on its face is expressed by the issuer to be non-transferable is a very different matter.

something stated as non-transferable by the issuer doesn't stop people transferring it anyway.

You've seen it happen, I've seen it happen, we've all seen it happen (on ebay, here, or elsewhere). So we know it happens despite those conditions.

A ticket replacement system is just a question of good customer service, not obligation. It is a perfectly reasonable expectation for there to be a system in place to deal with the "tiny number of people" (as you put it) who face this problem.

you cannot have that good customer service for a numbers limited event such as glasto without undermining the limit on numbers.

And if they did, it very quickly wouldn't be a tiny number of people that were claiming it had happened to them.

At the very least it is a basic requirement that people in this position should not be sneered or laughed at by administration staff or otherwise mistreated or taken advantage of by security.

while that attitude was wrong, it's not much different really to asking your boss for your wages to be paid to you twice. You'd expect your boss to laugh at you if you tried that, so I really don't know why people expected much different having lost their glastonbury ticket by their own doings.

The cost need not even be picked up by the rest of us - its perfectly usual for an administration fee to be charged for the issue of replacement tickets.

there is a limit on numbers. All tickets have been sold already. There are no extra tickets to be issued.

Finally, I am really surprised that you think a well written and genuine post by a first-timer should deserve having their ability to wipe their own arse called into question or to be described as "about as pathetic as things can get". Its a good contribution on a genuine and important issue which could affect any of us if we are unlucky enough. He's right to raise it and deserves better treatment than that.

People need to take responsibility for their own doings no different to them taking responsibility for wiping their own arse. Yes, it really is that simple. It's *HIS* fault he has lost his ticket, no one else's.

[eFestivals]

I understand where you're coming from but (and albeit we don't know the exact numbers turned away) it doesn't seem to be working and as such they should at least consider investigating the possibility of looking into a better resolution system rather than simply stating 'no ticket no entry', which I feel is an unreasonable and unflexible attitude to take, especially considering the personal costs involved.

The system is working.

You turn up with your ticket, and you get to get in. That's the system!!

Glastonbury review the system each and every year. They make changes where necessary, for the things that are within their own areas of responsibility. That doesn't include people nothing to do with them that lose their tickets.

If you allow one in without a ticket, then you can allow 100,000 in without tickets. Bye bye festival.

[Guest blackcockerel]

It isn't just that simple though, you were out of hand and rude. Are you like that in real life or do you just do it on your own forum?

[eFestivals]

Agree it's the individuals fault but there just has to be a procedure introduced in this day and age that could cover this miniscule percentage going forward.

if there is then you must know what it is. Glastonbury will be willing to hear it.

If you don't know of any such system that can work, please stop suggesting that such a system exists cos no one knows of any such system.

[Spuddy]

Like Neil I think the entry system works bloody well on the whole and I can't see an electronic system working nearly as well. And as far as I can see there is already a system for dealing with people with lost tickets - talk to the ticket office, and they'll deal with it on a case-by-case basis by looking at the information available and then make a decision.

The problem is not the system as such, but the fact that the person who was responsible for dealing with people with lost tickets appears to be a heartless bastard who took pleasure pissing other people off, rather than doing his job.

So yes Doomz, raise it with GFL - hopefully next year they'll get someone who has the balls to use their discretion and common sense when deciding whether to let ticketless people in - someone who cares as much about customer service as they do about security.

Glad you got in eventually though

[eFestivals]

but it was never an electronic gate system... but an electronic ticket checking system we were discussing... hence the mention of laptops. If the system did go down... then the human checking system would be used as back up... like in the airports! I realise that computers.. like people are not infallible.. these are just suggestions to assist with the evolution of the ticketing system.

what I'm calling an "electronic gate system" is what you're calling an electronic ticket checking system.

If the system did go down then .... it will have been a total waste of time that served no purpose whatsoever. And the OP still doesn't get to get in, but the entry system into Glastonbury gets to be chaos.

Airports are dead easy to work in comparison to Glastonbury. There's very little that's comparable with the system they use to what would be needed at Glastonbury. A plane has just a few hundred people, and one entry point onto the plane.

While you might think you're making worthwhile suggestions, you're really not. You're not suggesting anything they haven't considered and rejected for very good reasons.

[cejx]

what I'm calling an "electronic gate system" is what you're calling an electronic ticket checking system.

If the system did go down then .... it will have been a total waste of time that served no purpose whatsoever. And the OP still doesn't get to get in, but the entry system into Glastonbury gets to be chaos.

Airports are dead easy to work in comparison to Glastonbury. There's very little that's comparable with the system they use to what would be needed at Glastonbury. A plane has just a few hundred people, and one entry point onto the plane.

While you might think you're making worthwhile suggestions, you're really not. You're not suggesting anything they haven't considered and rejected for very good reasons.

[Ponyegg]

the database would have to be able to be accessed from all gates for every second of every day, guaranteed.

No one is able to provide such a system, which is why they don't have such a system.

[eFestivals]

No the tickets where not scanned ours where put under a ultra violet light to check the water mark on them a couple of times and most of the time i walked through with sunglasses on because some of the security staff where too busy talking to each other they just took the ticket never looked at us and gave ticket back and this is suppose to be security>>???????????????

It was stewards/gate staff that checked your tickets, not security staff.

As I've already said, any system is only as good as the people that work it. And Glastonbury are well aware that the checks are not always as good as they should be, which is the very reason why a ticket is absolutely required.

[halvin]

my God.... you're so rude.

[eFestivals]

Sympathise with eFests, undertsand his 'protect the fest' stance and also see where he is coming from regarding the problems with a IT solution at every gate but.....

The response was harsh and very non Glasto (someone on a post fest downer? ).

I started with saying "sympathies" and ended with saying "sympathies" - how much more sympathetic do you think I should have been?

In between, I stated some truths. If some people don't like truths then I suggest suicide as the only way out.

[Langdale Wolf]

Ok, just some thoughts but (NB: this is for punters, not the workers, roadcrew, performers, VIPs or their liggers/entourages).

Power:

Straightforward, use the site's main supply and each gate also runs UPS's with generator backup.

Networking/Connectivity:

Admittedly, this is the main issue... but then what's the point of having Orange there? Use their

working relationship with them. Get over the inherent issues with lengthy CAT5 cable by having

microwave wireless connections between a centralised hub and each gate. More secure than trying to

create a huge wireless network.

Database:

Even at the height of entrance Wed/Thurs I reckon you'd only be getting about, what, 20-30

transactions per second. Any decent enterprise level DB worth it's salt could easily

handle/capture such traffic. Replicate that out to a redundant setup and you've got

the beginnings of a workable solution.

Ticket checking:

Two ideas.

1] put an RFID tag in the ticket.

2] use a barcode/blockcode

Then use a PDA type device linked to either an RFID tag reader or bar/blockcode reader to record entry.

This is doable, it's just that it's not high up on their priorities. Yes it would cost more but GFL would benefit from increased visibility of people/traffic entering and leaving (think H&E), reduction in staffing (no-one standing their clicking a counter counting people in and out), better networking infrastructure and importantly (back on topic) something that would enable those people who've lost/had the tickets stolen some recourse to still get into the festival they've paid to get in to.

I know things are never this simple and I'm no systems analyst/architect... but it's not impossible.

If I was 15 years younger I'd be approaching them with an idea for a spin off company to produce this system on their behalf and to then sell on as a service to every other outdoor event and make the money back that way.

[cejx]

Ok, just some thoughts but (NB: this is for punters, not the workers, roadcrew, performers, VIPs or their liggers/entourages).

Power:

Straightforward, use the site's main supply and each gate also runs UPS's with generator backup.

Networking/Connectivity:

Admittedly, this is the main issue... but then what's the point of having Orange there? Use their

working relationship with them. Get over the inherent issues with lengthy CAT5 cable by having

microwave wireless connections between a centralised hub and each gate. More secure than trying to

create a huge wireless network.

Database:

Even at the height of entrance Wed/Thurs I reckon you'd only be getting about, what, 20-30

transactions per second. Any decent enterprise level DB worth it's salt could easily

handle/capture such traffic. Replicate that out to a redundant setup and you've got

the beginnings of a workable solution.

Ticket checking:

Two ideas.

1] put an RFID tag in the ticket.

2] use a barcode/blockcode

Then use a PDA type device linked to either an RFID tag reader or bar/blockcode reader to record entry.

This is doable, it's just that it's not high up on their priorities. Yes it would cost more but GFL would benefit from increased visibility of people/traffic entering and leaving (think H&E), reduction in staffing (no-one standing their clicking a counter counting people in and out), better networking infrastructure and importantly (back on topic) something that would enable those people who've lost/had the tickets stolen some recourse to still get into the festival they've paid to get in to.

I know things are never this simple and I'm no systems analyst/architect... but it's not impossible.

If I was 15 years younger I'd be approaching them with an idea for a spin off company to produce this system on their behalf and to then sell on as a service to every other outdoor event and make the money back that way.

[cejx]

That may be true but I don't see where he was being rude in what you quoted. He seemed to be making a perfectly valid point to me.

[eFestivals]

I guess the crux of my point is that it is easy to take this stance when you know deep down that you would never be in that situation.

Just feel and I get the impression that 90% of people participating in this debate agree that there is room for "a procedure" to be implemented to cover this possible scenario. Surely all bases should be covered and not leave the "Ooh that's a bit of a tricky one" elements out of consideration?

I'm going for a lie down...

My stance is that it would be my own stupid fault and that it would be unreasonable to expect entrance. That's no easy scenario for me to accept, but I accept it all the same - I don't expect others to take responsibility for me. Got it?????.

If there's room for a procedure then please tell Glasto that procedure - but one that will work. They'd be keen to hear it, of that I'm certain.

But I'm also certain that nothing suggested so far within this thread is anything that they'd accept, because there'd be too many bad consequences from an electronic system failure, and too many bad consequences from not controlling numbers as they need to be doing.