NIN quitting?

[worm]

What I should have said is that it is possible for a band to not play their hits and still do an amazing festival set. But when bands do that for the sake of doing it, the end result will seldom be better than the admittedly generic playlist many would anticipate.

Edited August 5, 2009 by worm

[beLIEveR]

''What is a festival set? A set that pleases the majority of a festival crowd?''

Those two sentences contradict each other.

If a festival set is one that pleases the audience then it is by definition defined by people's interpretations of it. I think the term is problematic. A festival set is simply a set played at a festival.

Edited August 5, 2009 by beLIEveR

[beLIEveR]

Indeed. So the audience has been alienated. Alienation is the source from which all new things emerge, because alienation is unfarmiliarity. The initial response to alienation is by nature discomfort. Otherwise, we'd have the same old tired conceptual shit being churned out again and again and no one would ever have to think or feel uncomfortable. That's conservatism.

[saltybugger]

I'm not sure that ambivalence is an emotion. I believe it to be a regard for something.

[worm]

Ambivalence to me is quite simply the of experiencing two conflicting emotions, desires or thoughts rather than a fact which conflicts with one's goals.

Edited August 5, 2009 by worm

[worm]

"Festival friendly set" then That set was not played with the intention of pleasing the majority of people there. I say that as neither praise nor criticism.

But if I am throwing my own opinion in, I would have enjoyed such a set more. Not because he's omitted bigger songs, but because he's omitted what I consider to be better songs.

[saltybugger]

Why are you seperating one's present pschological state from the thing creating the state i.e. a goal or intention? Without the intention towards something there would be no emotion.

You're back to emotion without stimuli again.

There would also be no intention without emotion. However, just because cause and effect are dependent on each other does not mean that they are not distinct things.

They are conflicting due to the two conflicting realities at play; what is being consumed (dissonance, revolution, alienation) and what is being produced (consonance, establishment, the norm).

As far as I'm concerned performances do not involve two conflicting realities. I would be prepared to say that although there is the illusion of one metareality created on occasion at such an event, there are in fact separate realities for every person there. These are going to be a complex web of conflicting and cohesive thoughts and feelings.

I would. That's because it's the right word to use. I continue to disagree.

[r0w]

well shit set or not...Mr Reznors certainly got u all talking about it over any other set at sonisphere

[beLIEveR]

well shit set or not...Mr Reznors certainly got u all talking about it over any other set at sonisphere

[worm]

There would also be no intention without emotion. However, just because cause and effect are dependent on each other does not mean that they are not distinct things.

[Bluearsedfly]

You're back to stereotyping again.

As you don't seem to have grasped how my retorts have applied to your criticisms I shall attempt to point it out for you:

Dissonant - to be unfamiliar and to attack the sensibilities and forms of a listener to deliver new meaning

Consonant - to conform to sensibilities and forms to reinforce established meaning

Ambilvelant (in relation to the above) - to want to achieve something and realise you can't in the same action

Indifferent - to be unconcerned by either conforming or achieving

So although he may wish to draw upon dissonance to arrive at a set that must by nature go against the norms of a rock festival, he is also aware that in doing so it will simply become part of the accepted norm. So, he must be ambivalent in his approach. Either that, or be indifferent and just do whatever the f**k he wants. For instance, in '89 Head Like a Hole was dissonant and went against every rock sensibility of the time. In '09, it is part of the standard canon of rock music. So, to keep being dissonant, he must be ambivalent. Dropping Head Like a Hole is a good example of this.

[worm]

You need to go lie down in a f**kin dark room for a few minutes mate.

Jesus.

[JakusMaximus]

Your points aren't really convincing though, you can't add weight to your argument simply by articulating it well, you can only communicate with a greater chance of understanding, from what i can gather you're just describing your interpretation of events which is different from his. You also have no grounds for your assumption that Trent reznor wishes to create dissonance? Or atleast to the extent at which you are arguing... I'm sure he's played more consonant rock festivals and not felt this desire, if you havent asked him yourself then you can't possibly know that he felt ambivolence - The fact that sonisphere was the only set on the tour that could be interpreted as fairly dissonant just suggests to me that he felt like playing an unusual set list as it was the last UK show, nothing more, nothing less.

[tomisnothere]

I think he may be hinting that you're reading into things "too much"

[worm]

Your points aren't really convincing though, you can't add weight to your argument simply by articulating it well, you can only communicate with a greater chance of understanding, from what i can gather you're just describing your interpretation of events which is different from his.

[worm]

I think he may be hinting that you're reading into things "too much"

[biffoire]

Bollocks.

If that was the case, surely Reznor's the sellout for turning up and taking the fat paycheque?

[worm]

And having just played T in the Park!

[biffoire]

Yeah, Hand that feeds, head like a hole. I guess trent though the average T goer was challenged enough without challenging them further!

But yeah the set looks a lot better.

1. Somewhat Damaged

2. Terrible Lie

3. Heresy

4. March of the Pigs

5. Piggy

6. I’m Afraid of Americans

7. Burn

8. Wish

9. Survivalism

10. The Big Comedown

11. The Hand That Feeds

12. Head Like a Hole

13. Hurt

[Bluearsedfly]

Why? Because I can write in well constructed sentences?

[worm]

No, because you enjoy sucking your own cock.

[worm]

Yeah, Hand that feeds, head like a hole. I guess trent though the average T goer was challenged enough without challenging them further!

But yeah the set looks a lot better.

1. Somewhat Damaged

2. Terrible Lie

3. Heresy

4. March of the Pigs

5. Piggy

6. I’m Afraid of Americans

7. Burn

8. Wish

9. Survivalism

10. The Big Comedown

11. The Hand That Feeds

12. Head Like a Hole

13. Hurt

Edited August 6, 2009 by worm

[tomisnothere]

The T In The Park set looks like a pretty standard NIN set for me. It was interesting and refreshing to see a set like they performed at Sonisphere, plus it was quite relaxing and soothing for me when things slowed down. Sun, quiet audience, slight breeze brushing past over a sky busied with faded white clouds. There was a moment where it all became a bit surreal to me, and I "zoned out" for a few minutes.

I guess it depends what sort of NIN fan you are though, which material you know, and exactly how open you are to a band playing a set which isn't traditional and is pushing boundaries a little. I remember the first thing I thought walking away from their Sonisphere set was that if I hadn't heard of NIN at all before that set, then it probably would've won me over completely. However, their standard festival set probably would've sparked less of an interest for me (but I still would've been interested).

For me it was a perfect set. Very relaxing and soothing after a few songs in. I was quite close to the stage and not once did I think Trent was angry or annoyed. He looked like he was giving a very intense performance, and one of my friends said he thought Trent seemed very emotionally attached to what he was doing. It was an honest set which I think he enjoyed performing, and I couldn't ask for anything better from a band like NIN. It was a very special sendoff, so no complaints here.

I can understand why there is backlash though - festivals are always full of "casual fans" - people who pay more attention to the singles and "main" material. It was inevitable.

[worm]

The T In The Park set looks like a pretty standard NIN set for me. It was interesting and refreshing to see a set like they performed at Sonisphere, plus it was quite relaxing and soothing for me when things slowed down. Sun, quiet audience, slight breeze brushing past over a sky busied with faded white clouds. There was a moment where it all became a bit surreal to me, and I "zoned out" for a few minutes.

I guess it depends what sort of NIN fan you are though, which material you know, and exactly how open you are to a band playing a set which isn't traditional and is pushing boundaries a little. I remember the first thing I thought walking away from their Sonisphere set was that if I hadn't heard of NIN at all before that set, then it probably would've won me over completely. However, their standard festival set probably would've sparked less of an interest for me (but I still would've been interested).

For me it was a perfect set. Very relaxing and soothing after a few songs in. I was quite close to the stage and not once did I think Trent was angry or annoyed. He looked like he was giving a very intense performance, and one of my friends said he thought Trent seemed very emotionally attached to what he was doing. It was an honest set which I think he enjoyed performing, and I couldn't ask for anything better from a band like NIN. It was a very special sendoff, so no complaints here.

I can understand why there is backlash though - festivals are always full of "casual fans" - people who pay more attention to the singles and "main" material. It was inevitable.

[tomisnothere]

I agree about the setting, it definitely helped (for me at least). When I saw NIN in Manchester, in a dark arena, the quieter parts didn't have anywhere near the same effect they had on me at Sonisphere.

I also agree about I Do Not Want This. I thought the exact same thing as I heard the lyrics.

People should keep in mind that is the "last NIN European show" (I have a feeling it might not be) as well as just a festival slot. As a final gig, it was intense and sentimental.

Edited August 6, 2009 by tomisnothere