World Cup 2010

[ampersand]

oh and Sven's a decent enough Manager, but Capello's record is far better.

Only him and Lippi have got to three consecutive European Cup Finals...though obviously their superior resources means that any old manager could do it.

[eFestivals]

Neil, I get your point and in part I agree. We aren't the best team unit, but equally nearly all international teams aren't due to the limited time getting together on international duty. It's hard to build team chemistry when only get a week or two together here and there.

it's not so much about chemistry, it's about meshing.

Lumpard and Gerrrard are the perfect example.

In competitive games, we currently have an excellent record under Capello. In friendlies still pretty excellent results wise, but really not much can be read into friendlies. They're just a way for the manager to experiment, try out different formations/systems/players whatever. And nothing, and I mean nothing can be read into the last 3 or so friendlies England have had as players aren't ever going to be fully committed and risk injury heading into a World Cup. It's playing at 60%.

Right, so Pat is that excellent manager, but he's had to bollock the team at half time in every match because they're playing shit. Spot the contradiction?

And even after the bollocking they're still a very long way from impressive.

Excellent manager, and excellent players. Yet the question that is never answered is: why the shit performances then?

Whatever it is, the whole is far far less than the sum of the individual parts.

[Langdale Wolf]

To be fair, Spain probably have the best international side ever assembled. Doesn't mean they're winning the World Cup though. A cursory look at the great Holland teams of yesteryear will tell you that.

[eFestivals]

Because of having a better spell at Milan than Mourinho did at Chelsea?

Because he was the catalyst for Real's dominance in the late 90's/ early 2000s?

Because he won Serie A with a worse team than Lazio?

Or because he later returned to Real, winning La Liga against one of the greatest Barcelona teams ever assembled, with a team of overpaid, overrated players?

No, all much simpler.

He has no different ideas to use with the same players.

[eFestivals]

oh and Sven's a decent enough Manager, but Capello's record is far better.

Only him and Lippi have got to three consecutive European Cup Finals...though obviously their superior resources means that any old manager could do it.

Care to tell me where Sven has managed with access to those sorts of resources?

[eFestivals]

To be fair, Spain probably have the best international side ever assembled. Doesn't mean they're winning the World Cup though. A cursory look at the great Holland teams of yesteryear will tell you that.

Spain teams of the past are a great example of the England team of the present, and exactly why we won't win it.

Spain have been near-favourites for many competitions over the years, yet often went home after the groups. Funny that, eh?

[beLIEveR]

Or Brazil in 82......

Also Argentina's frontline would be enough to make even past winners jealous. Doesn't mean they will win it either.

[Cardboard Box City]

Right, so Pat is that excellent manager, but he's had to bollock the team at half time in every match because they're playing shit. Spot the contradiction?

[Langdale Wolf]

Exactly. This is the team that finished behind Paraguay and Chile, lost to them, Ecuador and Colombia in games that really mattered, drew with Peru, suffocated in Bolivia, and have a manager that takes drugs. Yet they're considered more likely to win than England by the English.

[eFestivals]

You seem to know a lot about him as a manager considering you'd no clue about him before he became England manager.

It takes eyes, nowt more.

I'm guessing that you have yours shut in hope doing matches.

[Cardboard Box City]

Care to tell me where Sven has managed with access to those sorts of resources?

[ralph250]

yup - the last decade has proven it.

These are just about all the same players (or at least, the ones who'll get a decent kick are). Why do you think they're suddenly going to make a team this time around?

[eFestivals]

Manchester City?

wrong wrong wrong wrong.

Plus - and this applies with Hughes there too - it's Shitty. They're yet to reach a stage as a club where money is enough to get the players they might want.

[ampersand]

Spain teams of the past are a great example of the England team of the present, and exactly why we won't win it.

Spain have been near-favourites for many competitions over the years, yet often went home after the groups. Funny that, eh?

Edited June 10, 2010 by ampersand

[beLIEveR]

It takes eyes, nowt more.

I'm guessing that you have yours shut in hope doing matches.

[Cardboard Box City]

It takes eyes, nowt more.

I'm guessing that you have yours shut in hope doing matches.

[Langdale Wolf]

Neil's right.

Look at the f**king rubbish we've had to endure in the two meaningful games England have played under Capello.

[Cardboard Box City]

wrong wrong wrong wrong.

Plus - and this applies with Hughes there too - it's Shitty. They're yet to reach a stage as a club where money is enough to get the players they might want.

[eFestivals]

Experience is massive, and the likes of Terry, Lampard, Gerrard are at good experienced ages now.

Yet they're not better players than they were in the past all the same (and i'd say Terry and Gerrard are worse ... tho that's perhaps temporary).

I do think that Gerrard being captain has - perhaps - the chance of him raising his game. I've thought for years that his constantly subdued England performances have been at least in part due to him not being captain* so feeling that he can't drive the team on as he does at Liverpool, so perhaps him being captain for the tournament might make a difference. Might. If England do happen to win, and deservedly so, I suspect that'll be a big part of it.

(* the odd game where he's had the band don't count - he's known it's not for any time).

[eFestivals]

so 2008 was just a fluke then? or is it only spain that are allowed to prove themselves and become the best?

It's a different Spain to those failing Spain teams, that's why.

It's not a different England team to those failing England teams.

[eFestivals]

You do know that he was criticised during his time at Madrid (the second spell) for playing unimpressive football following the Galacticos period, but he still won the league?

A league with two teams.

There ain't just two teams in the WC.

[ampersand]

It's a different Spain to those failing Spain teams, that's why.

It's not a different England team to those failing England teams.

Edited June 10, 2010 by ampersand

[Langdale Wolf]

A league with two teams.

There ain't just two teams in the WC.

[eFestivals]

If they didn't reach that stage then its his fault, he had the money to get the players to get to that stage. After that its onwards and upwards - he didn't take them to that stage.

Nope, Sven didn't.

He inherited a poor team which he built up some with the not-bottomless money that was available to him from the Thai fraudster.

The real money only came after he'd gone.

[ralph250]

Care to tell me where Sven has managed with access to those sorts of resources?

Edited June 10, 2010 by ralph250